Nearly 9,000 U.S. troops dead? A NATIONWIDE CALL FOR INFO FROM SURVIVORS.

Re: Nearly 9,000 U.S. troops dead? yet another hoax spammed to indymedia

Current rating: 6
01 Jul 2005
Date Edited: 01 Jul 2005 07:23:38 PM

by Karl Rove

Indymedia is notorious for allowing disinformation to be spammed to its sites ...

The alleged "source" for this story is a hoax publication ... yes, there are probably more US casualties than admitted, but they're probably the "contractors" (mercenaries) and "Green Card" soldiers who aren't (yet) US citizens.

tbrnews = The Barnes Review (America's largest neo-Nazi holocaust denial publication)

one of the posters - who has been promoting the nonsense that planes were not involved in 9/11 (a great way to discredit real evidence that it was allowed to happen) makes this comment:

we also need to keep hoping for victory by the insurgents – this is the only way we can prove that Bush stole the election and that Dr. Dean is a really cool progressive. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

This is reminiscent of COINTELPRO, the notorious counter intelligence program -- tie the peace movement and discussion of election fraud to a position that will alienate nearly everyone. Now who benefits from that?

Barnes Review praises David Duke (the Klansman) and Hitler. See www.barnesreview.org/Nobel_Prize/nobel_prize.html

squawk.ca/lbo-talk/0304/2395.html report on a neo-nazi conference in Europe

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto profile of Willis Carto, famous American neo-Nazi who founded American Free Press / Barnes Review

... In 1955, he founded the organization called Liberty Lobby, which remained in operation under the control of Willis Carto until 2001, when the organization was forced into bankruptcy as a result of a lawsuit. Liberty Lobby was perhaps best known for publishing the newspaper, The Spotlight, between 1975 and 2001, which is also now defunct. Willis Carto and other people who were involved with The Spotlight have since started a new newspaper, called the American Free Press, which is similar in tone.
Carto was also the founder of a publishing company called Noontide Press, which published a number of books on white racialist subjects, including Yockey's Imperium. Noontide Press later became closely associated with the Institute for Historical Review (IHR), and fell out of Carto's hands at the same time as the IHR did. The IHR was founded by Willis Carto in 1979, with the intent of promoting the proposition that the Nazi Holocaust never happened - a view known as Holocaust revisionism or Holocaust denial. After losing control of Noontide Press and the IHR in a hostile takeover by former associates, Carto started another publication, the Barnes Review, which is also dedicated to denying that the Holocaust happened.
Willis Carto has had a long history of attempting to take the remains of existing groups and publications, and turning them into vehicles for his ideology. In 1966, Willis Carto acquired control of the American Mercury, a magazine which was once a highly respected periodical associated with H.L. Mencken, but which was on its last leg by the time Carto acquired it, and quickly went defunct. After the failed third-party Presidential campaign of George Wallace in 1968, Carto acquired control of what was left of the Youth for Wallace organization, and transformed it into an openly white supremacist youth organization called the National Youth Alliance. Carto eventually lost control of the National Youth Alliance to a rival on the far right, William Pierce, who transformed it into the National Alliance, which is today the most notorious neo-Nazi organization operating in the United States. Willis Carto also acquired the Sun Radio Network in the early 1990s, and attempted to use talk radio as a vehicle for spreading his views. That network also became defunct under Carto's control.
In 1984, Willis Carto was among those involved in starting a new political party called the Populist Party. As with many other Carto creations, this group quickly fell out of the hands of Carto in a hostile takeover from disgruntled former associates. This Populist Party, which critics charged was an electoral vehicle for current and former Ku Klux Klan and Christian Identity members, was not a continuation of the earlier Populist Party of the late 1800s, which was a left-wing party. The Populist Party started by Willis Carto was a party of the far right, and is best known for running David Duke as its Presidential nominee in 1988, and former Green Beret officer Bo Gritz in 1992. It disbanded by 1996.
In 2004, Carto joined in signing the New Orleans Protocol on behalf of American Free Press. The New Orleans Protocol seeks to "mainstream our cause" by reducing violence and internecine warfare, and was written by David Duke. There are few movements on the American far right that have not been influenced in one way or another by Willis Carto in the last 50 years.

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Comments

It is impossible to lose an argument when you're free to imagine false things about what your opponent is saying.

Current rating: 1
02 Jul 2005

by Scott Laughrey

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I'm very glad that you decided to lend your considerable debating skills to our discussion. Please feel free to make a factual argument--we'll all be enriched immeasurably for it!

Should you ever want to specifically address the facts I have presented, I might consider this a dialogue. If not, it is incorrect to assume I will have a debate with a Halliburton propaganda envoy. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

Re: Re: Nearly 9,000 U.S. troops dead? yet another hoax spammed to indymedia

Current rating: 6
03 Jul 2005

by Anonymous Poster

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While the 'spam' from the Barnes Review might be linked with a 'neo-nazi' website, the issue of how many soldiers have been killed in Iraq still remains. Since the beginning of the war, people have known that the secrecy which was demanded surrounding the number of dead enabled the Bush Administration to lie about the 'true costs of war'. He banned photos and visitors from the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base at the start of the war, presumably because dad had gotten offended by an interview on television which split-screened his face and a coffin from DAFB. While the idea that pictures of dead coffins will have a negative effect on public opinion might be true, the real problem is and has been the cloaking of the number of troops who have died. Photos? A good cover-up story. Forget about the photos of dead and burned people in Iraq. Somehow the media seems to have forgotten about this ban and/or haven't gotten around yet to an intensive investigative effort to reveal the real numbers. At the bottom of the page is a recent interview with Senator Biden, who discusses how Senators aren't even allowed in the mortuary at DAFB. With such enormous restrictions regarding such a seemingly simple matter -- photos of coffins -- a more difficult to prove one like the actual number of dead troops, becomes even more impossible until the Bush Administration and the Pentagon open their books or people start demanding an investigation by the Senate, which has been barred access.

Curtains Ordered for Media Coverage of Returning Coffins

". . . in early 1991, at the time of the Persian Gulf War, the Pentagon said there would be no more media coverage of coffins returning to Dover, the main arrival point; a year earlier, Bush was angered when television networks showed him giving a news briefing on a split screen with caskets arriving."

" In January 2000, then Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Henry Shelton told an audience at Harvard that before committing troops, politicians should make sure a war can pass what he called the "Dover test," so named for the Air Force base in Delaware where fallen soldiers' coffins return. Shelton said politicians must weigh military actions against whether the public is "prepared for the sight of our most precious resource coming home in flag-draped caskets." (Salon.com, see below)

----------------------------------------------

PBS, June 2004

"But on the eve of the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March of last year, the Bush administration reinstalled a ban on pictures of the arrival of war coffins and expanded it to include all U.S. bases. No more pictures like these of arriving coffins. Some Americans say the ban allows the administration to hide the body count of the Iraq war."

"Others, like Kirk Morris of Gurnee, Illinois, say the blackout prevents a media circus at a very tragic and private moment for the families."

"Officials say the photo ban is in deference to the privacy and the sensitivity of the families of the fallen. And, that President Bush believes we should honor and show respect for those who have made the ultimate sacrifice."

Kirk Morris, father of killed soldier Geoffrey Morris asked: "Do we need to see the bodies to know the numbers? I believe these pictures give the potential of a narrow-minded general public, the impression that young men are dying, therefore we need to pull out. Not [that] young men are dying because the cost of freedom is so high."

Mother of killed soldier Jonathan Langley, Vicky, "believes the administration is deliberately censoring pictures of her son Jonathan's coffin, as with all the others. According to a recent NEW YORK TIMES poll, 62 percent of Americans think the public should be allowed to see pictures of coffins of soldiers killed in Iraq."

"Dr. SAM HOFF (History Professor, Delaware State University): There is one thing that doesn't lie. The caskets don't lie."

-----------------------------------------------------

The Invisible Wounded, Salon.com, 3/8/2005

"But reporting on the size, scope or mounting cost of the war -- like pictures of incoming caskets or the seemingly endless stream of stretchers arriving at Walter Reed -- is almost impossible because of Pentagon restrictions."

Military Families Call on Bush Administration: Start Telling the Truth, Stop Hiding the Toll, Bring an End to Iraq War

All the way back in March 2004, protesters were calling for an end to the secrecy at Dover Air Force Base.

-----------------------------------------------------

Senators Cannot Meet Iraq War dead For a transcript got to (pdf)

In a recent broadcast of Face the Nation on CBS, from June 19, 2005, Senator Biden discussed the fact that Senators were not allowed to view the coffins in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base. He recently had to get special permission to view a

"SCHIEFFER: You talk about not fully informing the American people. There's no question that the administration has at least discouraged people from reporting on casualties there. For example, the casualties all the people who have been killed in Iraq come back through the...

Sen. BIDEN: True.

SCHIEFFER: ...Air Force base in Delaware.

Sen. BIDEN: In Dover.

SCHIEFFER: Do you ever go out to meet those flights out there?

Sen. BIDEN: I've tried to and they will not allow me to. As a matter of fact...

SCHIEFFER: Who will not allow you to?

Sen. BIDEN: The Defense Department. Look...

SCHIEFFER: Wait a minute. You're a United States senator.

Sen. BIDEN: I'm a United States senator. Well, let me be very...

SCHIEFFER: They're not letting you on a military base?

Sen. BIDEN: I'm allowed in the military base. I'm not allowed to go to the mortuary. I'm not allowed to be there when the flag-draped casket comes in. As a matter of fact, Bob, one family asked me whether I would meet their son who was tragically gunned down, actually car bomb in Iraq. This is several months ago. I said I would be honored to be with them. They wanted me to come with the minister. They wanted me through the whole process. The commander of the base told me that he couldn't allow that to happen and he's a friend--this is not like there's no hostility there; I'm on the base all the time--until he cleared it with the Pentagon. And I'm told the civilian leadership in the Pentagon.
So in order for me to literally go in and accompany a mom and a dad and a son to pick up the body of a dead son, a young Marine killed in Iraq, I was not just able to do it as a senior United States senator, former chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee--not like I'm new to this. I had to get specific permission for that specific event. I wanted to go when more than one Marine came back dead and I just wanted to show my respect. I didn't want any press there. There was no press. We weren't talking about that.
SCHIEFFER: So you think it is the secretary of Defense himself who's blocking you?

Sen. BIDEN: Well, that's my understanding. I don't know that for a fact, but it's not the
military. It's the civilian decision in the Defense Department that you're not allowed to be
there just to show respects. And let me emphasize here now. No press. No cameras. Nothing."

Arrest Bush 41

Current rating: 3
23 Aug 2005

Re: Nearly 9,000 U.S. troops dead? yet another hoax spammed to indymedia

Comments

It is impossible to lose an argument when you're free to imagine false things about what your opponent is saying.

Re: Re: Nearly 9,000 U.S. troops dead? yet another hoax spammed to indymedia

Arrest Bush 41

Re: Arrest Bush 41

Re: Arrest Bush 41

Re: Arrest Bush 41

Re: Re: Arrest Bush 41

Re: Arrest Bush 41

Re: Arrest Bush 41

Re: Arrest Bush 41

Re: Arrest Bush 41

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