u goyims now knows who rules
"join the marines and die for israel"

i am glad to finally see an artical about the death toll in iraq. i read alot of websites that state far more casualties than reported. this should be a good test to find out the actual count.

AMEN! Let ALL the truth come flooding out on the sleeping American public. See also:

signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signs.htm

www.americanfreepress.net/html/secret_toxic_weapons.html

www.whale.to/

www.team8plus.org/news.php

www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd114.htm

www.conspiracyarchive.com/Commentary/DSM_Reconsidered.htm

www.webcom.com/~lpease/collections/denied/octsurprise.htm

www.freewayblogger.com/summeroftruth.htm

votenowar.pephost.org/site/News2

Neo-Nazi Scum. Your days are numbered and soon you'll grow too large to ignore or pass off as a minor social nuisance. It's not the Jews you should be worried about. I love how Neo-Nazis say oh poor Palestine, oh poor Arabs, the Jews are attacking! But, when the Jews are dead, they'll all turn on the other "mud people" of the world.

Indymedia is notorious for allowing disinformation to be spammed to its sites ...


The alleged "source" for this story is a hoax publication ... yes, there are probably more US casualties than admitted, but they're probably the "contractors" (mercenaries) and "Green Card" soldiers who aren't (yet) US citizens.


tbrnews = The Barnes Review (America's largest neo-Nazi holocaust denial publication)



one of the posters - who has been promoting the nonsense that planes were not involved in 9/11 (a great way to discredit real evidence that it was allowed to happen) makes this comment:

we also need to keep hoping for victory by the insurgents – this is the only way we can prove that Bush stole the election and that Dr. Dean is a really cool progressive. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

This is reminiscent of COINTELPRO, the notorious counter intelligence program -- tie the peace movement and discussion of election fraud to a position that will alienate nearly everyone. Now who benefits from that?



Barnes Review praises David Duke (the Klansman) and Hitler. See www.barnesreview.org/Nobel_Prize/nobel_prize.html


squawk.ca/lbo-talk/0304/2395.html report on a neo-nazi conference in Europe

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto profile of Willis Carto, famous American neo-Nazi who founded American Free Press / Barnes Review

... In 1955, he founded the organization called Liberty Lobby, which remained in operation under the control of Willis Carto until 2001, when the organization was forced into bankruptcy as a result of a lawsuit. Liberty Lobby was perhaps best known for publishing the newspaper, The Spotlight, between 1975 and 2001, which is also now defunct. Willis Carto and other people who were involved with The Spotlight have since started a new newspaper, called the American Free Press, which is similar in tone.
Carto was also the founder of a publishing company called Noontide Press, which published a number of books on white racialist subjects, including Yockey's Imperium. Noontide Press later became closely associated with the Institute for Historical Review (IHR), and fell out of Carto's hands at the same time as the IHR did. The IHR was founded by Willis Carto in 1979, with the intent of promoting the proposition that the Nazi Holocaust never happened - a view known as Holocaust revisionism or Holocaust denial. After losing control of Noontide Press and the IHR in a hostile takeover by former associates, Carto started another publication, the Barnes Review, which is also dedicated to denying that the Holocaust happened.
Willis Carto has had a long history of attempting to take the remains of existing groups and publications, and turning them into vehicles for his ideology. In 1966, Willis Carto acquired control of the American Mercury, a magazine which was once a highly respected periodical associated with H.L. Mencken, but which was on its last leg by the time Carto acquired it, and quickly went defunct. After the failed third-party Presidential campaign of George Wallace in 1968, Carto acquired control of what was left of the Youth for Wallace organization, and transformed it into an openly white supremacist youth organization called the National Youth Alliance. Carto eventually lost control of the National Youth Alliance to a rival on the far right, William Pierce, who transformed it into the National Alliance, which is today the most notorious neo-Nazi organization operating in the United States. Willis Carto also acquired the Sun Radio Network in the early 1990s, and attempted to use talk radio as a vehicle for spreading his views. That network also became defunct under Carto's control.
In 1984, Willis Carto was among those involved in starting a new political party called the Populist Party. As with many other Carto creations, this group quickly fell out of the hands of Carto in a hostile takeover from disgruntled former associates. This Populist Party, which critics charged was an electoral vehicle for current and former Ku Klux Klan and Christian Identity members, was not a continuation of the earlier Populist Party of the late 1800s, which was a left-wing party. The Populist Party started by Willis Carto was a party of the far right, and is best known for running David Duke as its Presidential nominee in 1988, and former Green Beret officer Bo Gritz in 1992. It disbanded by 1996.
In 2004, Carto joined in signing the New Orleans Protocol on behalf of American Free Press. The New Orleans Protocol seeks to "mainstream our cause" by reducing violence and internecine warfare, and was written by David Duke. There are few movements on the American far right that have not been influenced in one way or another by Willis Carto in the last 50 years.

I'm very glad that you decided to lend your considerable debating skills to our discussion. Please feel free to make a factual argument--we'll all be enriched immeasurably for it!

Should you ever want to specifically address the facts I have presented, I might consider this a dialogue. If not, it is incorrect to assume I will have a debate with a Halliburton propaganda envoy. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

While the 'spam' from the Barnes Review might be linked with a 'neo-nazi' website, the issue of how many soldiers have been killed in Iraq still remains. Since the beginning of the war, people have known that the secrecy which was demanded surrounding the number of dead enabled the Bush Administration to lie about the 'true costs of war'. He banned photos and visitors from the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base at the start of the war, presumably because dad had gotten offended by an interview on television which split-screened his face and a coffin from DAFB. While the idea that pictures of dead coffins will have a negative effect on public opinion might be true, the real problem is and has been the cloaking of the number of troops who have died. Photos? A good cover-up story. Forget about the photos of dead and burned people in Iraq. Somehow the media seems to have forgotten about this ban and/or haven't gotten around yet to an intensive investigative effort to reveal the real numbers. At the bottom of the page is a recent interview with Senator Biden, who discusses how Senators aren't even allowed in the mortuary at DAFB. With such enormous restrictions regarding such a seemingly simple matter -- photos of coffins -- a more difficult to prove one like the actual number of dead troops, becomes even more impossible until the Bush Administration and the Pentagon open their books or people start demanding an investigation by the Senate, which has been barred access.


Curtains Ordered for Media Coverage of Returning Coffins

". . . in early 1991, at the time of the Persian Gulf War, the Pentagon said there would be no more media coverage of coffins returning to Dover, the main arrival point; a year earlier, Bush was angered when television networks showed him giving a news briefing on a split screen with caskets arriving."

" In January 2000, then Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Henry Shelton told an audience at Harvard that before committing troops, politicians should make sure a war can pass what he called the "Dover test," so named for the Air Force base in Delaware where fallen soldiers' coffins return. Shelton said politicians must weigh military actions against whether the public is "prepared for the sight of our most precious resource coming home in flag-draped caskets." (Salon.com, see below)

----------------------------------------------

PBS, June 2004

"But on the eve of the U.S. invasion of Iraq in March of last year, the Bush administration reinstalled a ban on pictures of the arrival of war coffins and expanded it to include all U.S. bases. No more pictures like these of arriving coffins. Some Americans say the ban allows the administration to hide the body count of the Iraq war."

"Others, like Kirk Morris of Gurnee, Illinois, say the blackout prevents a media circus at a very tragic and private moment for the families."

"Officials say the photo ban is in deference to the privacy and the sensitivity of the families of the fallen. And, that President Bush believes we should honor and show respect for those who have made the ultimate sacrifice."

Kirk Morris, father of killed soldier Geoffrey Morris asked: "Do we need to see the bodies to know the numbers? I believe these pictures give the potential of a narrow-minded general public, the impression that young men are dying, therefore we need to pull out. Not [that] young men are dying because the cost of freedom is so high."

Mother of killed soldier Jonathan Langley, Vicky, "believes the administration is deliberately censoring pictures of her son Jonathan's coffin, as with all the others. According to a recent NEW YORK TIMES poll, 62 percent of Americans think the public should be allowed to see pictures of coffins of soldiers killed in Iraq."

"Dr. SAM HOFF (History Professor, Delaware State University): There is one thing that doesn't lie. The caskets don't lie."

-----------------------------------------------------

The Invisible Wounded, Salon.com, 3/8/2005

"But reporting on the size, scope or mounting cost of the war -- like pictures of incoming caskets or the seemingly endless stream of stretchers arriving at Walter Reed -- is almost impossible because of Pentagon restrictions."

Military Families Call on Bush Administration: Start Telling the Truth, Stop Hiding the Toll, Bring an End to Iraq War

All the way back in March 2004, protesters were calling for an end to the secrecy at Dover Air Force Base.

-----------------------------------------------------

Senators Cannot Meet Iraq War dead For a transcript got to (pdf)

In a recent broadcast of Face the Nation on CBS, from June 19, 2005, Senator Biden discussed the fact that Senators were not allowed to view the coffins in the mortuary at Dover Air Force Base. He recently had to get special permission to view a

"SCHIEFFER: You talk about not fully informing the American people. There's no question that the administration has at least discouraged people from reporting on casualties there. For example, the casualties all the people who have been killed in Iraq come back through the...

Sen. BIDEN: True.

SCHIEFFER: ...Air Force base in Delaware.

Sen. BIDEN: In Dover.

SCHIEFFER: Do you ever go out to meet those flights out there?


Sen. BIDEN: I've tried to and they will not allow me to. As a matter of fact...

SCHIEFFER: Who will not allow you to?

Sen. BIDEN: The Defense Department. Look...

SCHIEFFER: Wait a minute. You're a United States senator.

Sen. BIDEN: I'm a United States senator. Well, let me be very...

SCHIEFFER: They're not letting you on a military base?

Sen. BIDEN: I'm allowed in the military base. I'm not allowed to go to the mortuary. I'm not allowed to be there when the flag-draped casket comes in. As a matter of fact, Bob, one family asked me whether I would meet their son who was tragically gunned down, actually car bomb in Iraq. This is several months ago. I said I would be honored to be with them. They wanted me to come with the minister. They wanted me through the whole process. The commander of the base told me that he couldn't allow that to happen and he's a friend--this is not like there's no hostility there; I'm on the base all the time--until he cleared it with the Pentagon. And I'm told the civilian leadership in the Pentagon.
So in order for me to literally go in and accompany a mom and a dad and a son to pick up the body of a dead son, a young Marine killed in Iraq, I was not just able to do it as a senior United States senator, former chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee--not like I'm new to this. I had to get specific permission for that specific event. I wanted to go when more than one Marine came back dead and I just wanted to show my respect. I didn't want any press there. There was no press. We weren't talking about that.
SCHIEFFER: So you think it is the secretary of Defense himself who's blocking you?

Sen. BIDEN: Well, that's my understanding. I don't know that for a fact, but it's not the
military. It's the civilian decision in the Defense Department that you're not allowed to be
there just to show respects. And let me emphasize here now. No press. No cameras. Nothing."

Google and type in "The FBI uses polygraphs to eliminate suspects"

Google Search: Morgan Reynolds on the 911 Hoax

Google Search: Danny Casolaro and Paul Wilcher

Google Search: 911hoax.com

There would not have been attacks on 9/11 or the assassination of JFK, if George Bush Sr. had never been born.

Google Search: Abolish the Federal Reserve

Bill and Hillary Clinton = Mena cocaine conspirators.

9/11: The U.S. Military Did It!

It is the U.S. military, specifically the private military contractors. How often do you hear of SAIC in the same breath as 9/11 truth? Why not? Most of the 9/11 "truth" movement is manipulated to stall and distract from the real operatives/perps. Let's spell it out as simply as possible, where did 9/11 come from? The U.S. military.

9/11 was a U.S. military operation, a terror drill hidden inside war games.

911researchers.com NXNGRG's blog

Profile page: en.netlog.com/Ringwind

world trade center demolitions ...

wtcdemolition.blogspot.com/

you idiots erased my msg when, after I'd finished, instead of hitting submit button I additionally went above to "rate" the "article" and all my "comment" text then disappeared. Fuck u stupid shit.

this is definitely true. I have heard it personally from soldiers who have returned from Iraq. Soldiers even tried to complain to reach the goal of liberating the truth to the american people and making the public cognizant of the fact that tons more are dying in later stages after damage affliction on the battlefield. This is common sense people! start believing it. DOD is evil!

I believe the death toll is far higher (x3)-(don't forget that "green card soldiers" are not counted or even taken home - there are some 40.000 of them in Iraq who are promised american citizenship and $50.000 back in america, ifever they do!(what a cheap price!) but if they get killed, they are systematically buried in the desert or thrown in the Tigris there are various videos that every American must see!) Maybe they finally understand that they DO NOT have the “right” to attack whichever country they feel like attacking (ironically they were pretty selective, choosing one that’s been crippled by 10 years of sanctions and carefully avoiding challenging countries that would give them a hell of a fight as soon as they crossed the border..but their calculations turned out to be all wrong).Americans who supported this genocide (hundred of thousands of Iraqi civillians have been killed or maimed for life), torture (I'm afraid American values, human rights,etc, are true only in cheap Hollywood movies) and the slaughter of their own (and anyone siding with them) should be ashamed of themselves.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

well i am not suprised the USA is lying abouts casualites, after all its lied on almost all other things, I just hope this gets out to mainstream

I find it very suspicious that a person whom is trying to get correct numbers on actual US troop deaths fudges the numbers that were sent to Iraq, in order to do so.
Here is the excerpt from the post that I find quite deceptive, as deceptive as the DoD number of deaths, let's face it.

"This means that of the 158,000 U.S. military shipped to Iraq ..."

Well, that may be a close approximation of the total number of US troops in Iraq at any one time, but the total number sent there over the course of war, rotating in then out, is above the 500,000 mark, perhaps in the 750,000 or more range. They don't keep the same troops there forever, they bring one set home and send another set out. Only sometimes, troops who have been there before return.

Of course, claiming only 158,000 total ever sent there, makes the desertion and dead and injured number seem a much greater portion of the total.

Why is that when I read something a dissenter writes up to expose a lie of the government, I find they include their own lie(s) in their hit piece as well ? How come that happens almost every single time I read a dissenting piece ?

My conclusion ? The people trying to out the government liars are just as big liars themselves. They certainly know full well why they short their own numbers in certain areas, for the effect they want, just as their piece analyzes why the government makes certain numbers lower than they should be.

I won't allow the " truth exposers " any more room for their lies, than they allow the government for theirs. No takebacks, no claiming you didn't know what you were doing, and no complicated explanations that claim for some obscure reason the false number is somehow correct or the reader didn't understand the context.

Liars and liars, and the shame is, that those exposing the lairs of the government are almost universally given to the same sort of low life debase lying that they rally against, and certainly that is the case here.

It is a shame.

amazingly, dissenters fall prey to the same stupid shit the neocons do: the need to exagerate the "truth" for their own purposes.

i've been antiwar since viet nam and keep warning my fellow left wingers, DON'T FUCKIN LIE! we don't need to, dammit! the truth is the only thing that can stop the madness.

To my dear follow Americans--you've been had and doop and poop man times.
Admit it--you'er piriates,now that oil prices are going through the roof and the Name American is as bad Nazie German, you want now to be respected.
WWI WWII the deaths were hidden, In vetnam same bullshit.
Do you really want to know how much Americans are saps and spineless-read this goofus and ask yourselves--why was this not in History 101
In 1915 there was a Coward Wilson as President-a mentor to BushII, he lied to be re-elected and said no way troops be sent to Europe, 3 months the bastard into re-elction,the weasel lied.The real deed was in 1915, hand in hand with American Jewish Industrialist, this pecker sent $325 million to the Russian Czar not to sign a peace treaty with Germany.The Jews had him by the balls--blackmail--he was porking his buddie's wife-a senator.The Belfour Agreement had a claude--Homeland for the Jews--Palestine.
Folks, Millions died in WWI WWII and all became world Wars because of the rat jewish pack. Even today, the same greedy bunch are scamming us to do the killing for them.You and others in USA are the Killers--feel good ?The only way America will change it's way is--we stay in Iraq until the job is done---all our troops --8 feet under sand!
FACT;-Jews only care for Jews

The Problem With Veterans


Vets Are Expensive
(And Well Trained)


War Veterans of the 20th and 21st century have always been a problem to the industrialist elite financier types who create, and profit from modern warfare.
The problem is actually twofold.
First, survivors of warfare are usually hardened troops, well trained, and possessing a certain degree of discipline for the rest of their lives. Veterans are capable of organizing because they have been trained to do that. In some instances veterans not only DO organize among themselves, but also effect great change and wield a good little bit of power within government itself. Overall this is not an optimum situation for the people who wish to have everything their own way, and easily. People who violently resent any inclination otherwise, people like the bushcheneyrumscondosleezllaryton coven.
Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the veterans of 20th and 21st century American wars have usually been promised, contingent upon survival, of course, some sort of payment, care, or benefit(s) as reward for service to their country, which is really service to the few rich and conniving families who run the country, now with the help of other rich families around the world. And these families are all Really REALLY rich. Many generations rich. The currency mongers. Believe me, you do not understand how wealthy these people are. You are not allowed to understand things like that. That is not your place. Know your place. Examples of these ultra rich families reneging on their promises are rife. They did not get as rich as they are by being generous. No. They got that way by being better predators, but thats a story for another day.
Suffice it to say that one must many times pursue-with-fervor what is necessary to survive within the ever shrinking bubble which veteran care has become. So we finally get to the real problem, and the real problem is this: Veterans are Expensive, especially in great numbers possessing various and sundry deformities-contagions-and-God-only-knows-what-other kinds of damages.
What to do? What to Do?? About these problematic veterans? How about this: we stage wars like sports events, country bands at half time, and Nugent if they get really surly later on...then we deploy and test alllllll kinds of biotech and radiation technology which we need to test anyway, then we also use uranium powders in the bombs so that a great degree of radioactive dust becomes airborn always, forever and ever, then we keep the troops over there for 5-8 years, because 1-2 years did not work the first time around -- we know this and thats why we had to destroy the gulf war one medical records by having the mind control subject Mcveigh take the fall for the cataclysm at Oklahoma City. What? You did not realize thats where most of the gulf war one medical records were stored? Well bust my buttons and shut my mouth I am sure sorry to be the one to burden you with that but I guess its time for you to wake up and smell the pork barrel eh?
The way to handle the veteran problem is SIMPLE!! Make it so they will not live long enough after a war to collect or even become a problem! Make them disposable! WHAT A CONCEPT! If the veteran goes away, the veteran problem goes away. See The Movie BEYOND TREASON. www.beyondtreason.com

so. what are your thoughts on 9/11?

i love her

I hate to tell you this and not to insult anyone but... in military kindergarden, a wounded soldier is better because he\she ties up about ten times more resources and inflicts more psychological damage to moral. To the enemy, they don't care how many dead, they prefer wounded and lots of them, severely wounded is even better, severely wounded who survive with visible deformaties and who are released in the general population are like ambassadors to the enemies cause, they destroy individual support and place war on the doorstep of those who were once insolated - it's the amount of wounded that will loose your war with Iraq and other muslim countries, not the amount of dead. I'm sorry about everything, especialy the depleted uranium, it's as if the American soldiers are shooting at themselves and are one step closer to loosing the war everytime they use ammo - like digging your own grave, how awful.

It is a fantastic thing to A) see some people that actually care about what is happening. B) that John McCarthy is alive and well.

Thank you for your excellent posts, aside from whatever/whoever the jew hater was.

Spread kindness, it's a daring new way to STOP all of the hate that you so venomously typed.

Correction.
This data of "Nearly 9000" is out of date
I've been keeping my eye on the numbers and the actual American Killed in Iraq is close to
9789 as of the 30th June.
I lost could of the wounded at around 50,000.

This may help.
103,000 U.S casualties estimated for the year 2004 ... Link here 2nd Paragraph,4th line read carefully.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/28/AR2005062800545.html

Whether it's 1746,1757,1831,almost 9000 or a million, isn't the issue. The issue is that our "leaders" either lied or went along with the liars to create a situation favorable for THEIR political agenda and political experimentation; not because of the lies that were told to the public. Yes the masses are conservative, self-centered almost inertiac; it is hard to get people to do anything. But, can you blame us? Sending soldiers into an already hostile, American-hating climate, thanks to poor and poorly thought-out foreign policy; sending them there poorly equipped, almost fighting a war with nothing but junk guns and junk humvees(junk jeeps), fighting this war ass-backwards, sending in troops when you should first send in the "big stuff"; and even--should i get paranoid here?--the ideas that wars are now fought to make the world safe for businessmen who have to go global just so they can fill their pockets even more and add on to that house on the hill? Maybe I'm getting carried away, but YES I think the government lied, I think they planned this war poorly, I REALLY DOUBT these numbers are correct; but I don't support this war and IF these "leaders" lied to the people they only hurt themselves. How will they rally support when it actually comes time to fight a real war against a real threat? They've shot themselves in the foot and are aiming at their other one. Anyone read THE PROJECT FOR THE 21st CENTURY or The project for the new American Century, might be worth the time and effort. Anyone interested in reading and posting on this page may well also want to read the material on websites www.counterorder.com and www.holology.com. One site leads to the other. Best site I ever read when it came to trying to make sense of what really happened.

Bush Lies and People Dies. Each and every day the corporate controlled media (including the WP) reports on more and more deaths in Bush’s illegal war for oil.

What the corporate controlled media fails to see is that there are a lot of really cool progressives like me and Sean Penn and Noam Chomsky and others on the angry bitter left who are now using these Internet chat boards to promote the talking points fed to us from A.N.S.W.E.R. and MoveOn.org.

The indoctrinated talking points include using Internet chat boards as much as possible (since many of us don’t have jobs) and also letting people know just how many people DIES in Bush’s illegal war for oil.

The really cool progressives and others with the angry, bitter left need to keep yelling Bush Lies and People Dies and we also need to keep hoping for victory by the insurgents – this is the only way we can prove that Bush stole the election and that Dr. Dean is a really cool progressive. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

military personel that die in non-combat situations are not counted towards the official numbers.

Its time the media brings this truth to the American people.

bush is doing nothing to give the Americans who die for his lie any honor but why does he hide the numbers, because he is noting but a man who lies and cover ups the facts. He fails to admit he is wrong, He fails to removed himself from office, he has failed as a president of our great country.
He has failed the live and also has failed the dead he created. He hides this deceit from the world.

Axis of evil, look in the mirror bush and see what you see you gave your citizens of this country a death sentence and you can only smirk and lie.

WE KNOW THAT THE BUSH REGIME HAS MISCOUNTED THE DEAD SOLDIERS. WE HAVE BEEN SAYING THAT FOR THE LAST TWO YEARS...COUNT YOURSELF. NO CORPORATE MEDIA HAS THE SAME NUMBERS...WEBSITES QUOTING FROM DOD GIVE OUT BAD INFORMATION, INFO RIGHT STRAIGHT FROM BUSH REGIME...THIS SHOULD BE THE BIGGEST STORY ON CORPORATE MEDA AND ITS NOT....WE NEED A NEW WAY OF GETTING OUR MESSAGE OUT TO THE PEOPLE.

THE 100,000 DEAD IRAQIS IS ANOTHER LIE. JOHN HOPKINS HOSPITAL COUNTED OVER 100,000 LAST SEPTEMBER BEFORE FALLUJA NAPALM BOMBING, WE ARE BOMBING BY AIR EVERY DAY....THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS HAVE...STOP WATCHING CORPORATE MEDIA...GET DISH NETWORK, AND LISTEN TO WORLD LINK TV, INDEPENDENT NEWS AND DEMOCRACY NOW...THEN MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF OUR OUR PRESS HAS BEEN TAKEN OVER BY THE BUSH REGIME PROPAGANDA MACHINE...LIES, LIES AND MORE LIES.

I have little doubt that this is true ,I dont trust this govt ,they have lied to us since it started in 1776 ,the lies just get bigger because non dare chalange it , if this can be proved it should sink the bush machine ,but I would never underestimate the ability of these snakes to slide out of a tight spot

"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."

"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy"

President 4, James Madison

not 9,000 but more than 15,000

Please visit URGENT my website: Top Secret News!!! :)


www.metropolis5000.com

While good men and women in uniform die for the flag and country under false pretenses; the ogr and beast who has unleashed this War for Oil and Control, subjugation and humiliation of the Muslim World lauds his act.
Funny how the America people allow this mass murderer and genocidal maniac to stage his rhetoric of "War on terror" and (Iraq is te Central Front on this madman's War on terror)to speak to the US and the World with a supposed support of the Military all silently musing at his every LIE and FRAUDULENT CLAIMS?
What America, the beloved Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave needs is not a cheer Leader for a President or a who-dunnot nitwit for Leader but a person of integrity and goodwill.

I find it very suspicious that a person whom is trying to get correct numbers on actual US troop deaths fudges the numbers that were sent to Iraq, in order to do so.
Here is the excerpt from the post that I find quite deceptive, as deceptive as the DoD number of deaths, let's face it.

"This means that of the 158,000 U.S. military shipped to Iraq ..."

Well, that may be a close approximation of the total number of US troops in Iraq at any one time, but the total number sent there over the course of war, rotating in then out, is above the 500,000 mark, perhaps in the 750,000 or more range. They don't keep the same troops there forever, they bring one set home and send another set out. Only sometimes, troops who have been there before return.

Of course, claiming only 158,000 total ever sent there, makes the desertion and dead and injured number seem a much greater portion of the total.

Why is that when I read something a dissenter writes up to expose a lie of the government, I find they include their own lie(s) in their hit piece as well ? How come that happens almost every single time I read a dissenting piece ?

My conclusion ? The people trying to out the government liars are just as big liars themselves. They certainly know full well why they short their own numbers in certain areas, for the effect they want, just as their piece analyzes why the government makes certain numbers lower than they should be.

I won't allow the " truth exposers " any more room for their lies, than they allow the government for theirs. No takebacks, no claiming you didn't know what you were doing, and no complicated explanations that claim for some obscure reason the false number is somehow correct or the reader didn't understand the context.

Liars and liars, and the shame is, that those exposing the lairs of the government are almost universally given to the same sort of low life debase lying that they rally against, and certainly that is the case here.

It is a shame.

All governments lie about war casualties. Can anyone seriously argue that the greatest military in the world has been halted by a couple of thousand deaths? Get real. The above article is correct. The US government only counts those who died 'in' Iraq, not 'because' of Iraq.

Every Iraqi child knows that there are mass graves of American soldiers in the Iraqi desert and hundreds of bodies of American and allied soldiers have been fished out of Iraqi rivers. Only the Americans are kept in the dark about the extent of American deaths and injured. More than 15000 detahs and more than 30,000 badly injured. Wake up! American lives are being lost for the Rogue nation of Israel. Enough is enough. Say to NO to Neocons and Israel!

This subject has been discussed before but I am glad to see a conscious effort to really get to the bones of the matter. I urge all military families to get in touch NOW. For the sake of the truth!

www.freeforum101.com/forum/viewtopic.php

Oh, yes, expendable aassets. Is that not business 101?

The 'bean counters' in Washington are counting on the grief of families NOT to participate in this accounting. One from column A and one from column B. Hmmmmmm, now that sounds familiar.

Lawyer speak is the new lexicon. "Well, he did not ACTUALLY die in combat, he died in surgery, perhaps from incompetence" therefore, not a KIA statistic. Ain't that sweet logic?

If Landstuhl is only a 150 bed hospital, how do they treat the thousands of wounded in transit? Sorry, stupid question.....

johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com
tell the kids.

This story has been running at TBR for some time guys, well over a year in fact. Trouble is that every time it's mentioned or blogged, out come the jibes of "anti semite" and "holocaust deniers" etc. America really needs to wake up from this shit!!

This is Anne Frank’s hidden annex

Read the truth

I personally know of one death, I checked the list, and his name is there with the correct date of death. I am emailing this article to many others who fear and loathe our government as much as I. Besides the ones who die after they have been sent from Iraq to a hospital in Germany, there are also innumerable ones who will die from the depleted uranium and other kinds of poisonings they received while serving obediently under Uncle Scam. About 1/3 of all our 1/2 million troops whom we sent to free Kuwait in 1991 received either an injury or death for their reward, and most of those were poisoned and then the government lied about the poisons.

From depleted uranium? You mean from weapons of mass destruction. Surely you can't mean that they found some. Good gracious, that would mean that Bush was right about something.

I personally know of one death, I checked the list, and his name is there with the correct date of death. I am emailing this article to many others who fear and loathe our government as much as I. Besides the ones who die after they have been sent from Iraq to a hospital in Germany, there are also innumerable ones who will die from the depleted uranium and other kinds of poisonings they received while serving obediently under Uncle Scam. About 1/3 of all our 1/2 million troops whom we sent to free Kuwait in 1991 received either an injury or death for their reward, and most of those were poisoned and then the government lied about the poisons.

9000 US deaths are not enough. Millions of americans should die for Israel. This is because God says so in Revelations, and thru his ministers such as pat robertson, bill graham etc...

You all are just discovering this now? I saw Dick Cheney make the definition of a death in action a year ago on Meet the Press. He changed the reporting definition. Soldier who died from vehicle roll overs also do not count, soldier dying from reaction to the bounty of immunizations and antiviral shots do not count, and suicides do not count. I am waiting for someone to use a scanning device to scan the nations obituary newspaper postings for death in Iraq and add them up that way.

All of us really cool progressives who post here knows that Bush Lies and People Dies.

The only reason that Bush's illegal war for oil is able to continue is by the jingoistic flag waving of the corporate controlled media. The really cool progressives like me and Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore use the Internet to question authority and have intellectual discussion of topics that the corporate controlled media won't cover.

I am somewhat of an expert on 9/11. I know from looking at some really cool progressive Web sites that it wasn't the propaganda that the corporate controlled media would have you believe of 19 hijackers and jet airplanes.

The Web Fairy and me have some really cool progressive sites that show how it was squib charges and holograms that destroyed the WTC. I can look at a 72 dpi image posted on a really cool progressive Web site and tell you exactly how steel is affected by burning jet fuel and the physics of an impact of 500-plus mph by a large object. That is what the Internet can do for us really cool progressives.

There's a lot more going on in the 9/11 cover-up than meets the eye. People who buy every word that the corporate-controlled media says should go buy George Orwell's 1984 and practice up; it won't be long before the hopelessly indoctrinated manage to get the clocks to thirteen here. Peace. -- Scott Laughrey

A progressive eh? Well then I wouldn't go quoting 1984 to support my position then. Oceania's government is a picture of what happens when progressives get out of control. Big Brother was a left-wing dictator and was based on Joseph Stalin. Did you even read the book? Not that right wing extremism appeals to me either. But you get too far either way and a dictator is your only reward.

An expert on 9/11. You sir are a pimple on an ugly boar's behind. Enough mudslinging though. Instead of looking at your "really cool progressive web sites" why don't you try learning physics yourself before making yourself out to be an expert. REPUTABLE physicists have run tests and found exactly how two jet liners can take down two towers, which in fact they did. Take a look at www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/ or the article in scientific american from a couple of years back. Just because you don't want to believe MIT trained engineers doesn't mean you're smarter than they are.

Well now I've seen everything. First we heard about Arthur Anderson, Enron, WorldCom, etc., who cooked the books and stole billions.nThen we witnessed two consecutive Bush election "victories" with some very shady accounting (or rather uncounting) of votes. Then the Orwellian Bush programs to clear the skies, leave children behind, etc. Then there were the inaccuracies of the unemployment and job creation "figures". Now the disappearing dead of this ridiculous war for phantom WMDs and ties to Al Queda. Then 8 billion tax payer dollars disappeared in to US companies rebuilding Iraq. America wake up and count your toes!!

An important point that must be brought out with this story is that no one is denying that all the deaths have been reported and that they are all on lists, the bodies have been brought home, they have been interred, even life insurance claims have been filed. THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM! The administration is only showing a total of 1, 741 killed in combat, and not showing the numbers that died from their wounds. To make this right, the govt. would have to show: Killed in Iraq in combat zones: 1,741 Killed due to military service in Iraq: 7,500 That is the way it should be published. Thanks for following up on this, Sarah

They don't care if you protest peacefully or elect who they select in corrupt elections. They do worry about you rising up quickly and hanging them from trees. Nothing short of that is going to change anything. Like it or not the peace movement has failed.

I don't understand why the troops don't fight their true enemy. I guess after all that brainwash they do not own their own thoughts anymore.

Gun sales are up 9% but hunting license sales are not. I think the people are getting ready for the next false flag terror attack and are going to move quickly to replace DC with something that represents America. The rich are not hard to find either.

Once again, I am very happy to see the members of the bitter angry left joining in with nothing but their consistent hate hate hate of the Bush regime.

My fellow comrades at A.N.S.W.E.R. and MoveOn.org started the Bush Lies and People Dies mantra and it has spread to all sectors of the angry, bitter left as evidenced by your postings on this Internet chat board.

It is only right that members of the angry, bitter left question authority and also question sincerity of those who offer the propaganda of the Bush regime. Bush Lies and People Dies. This we all know to be a fact.

What is also interesting is that the members of the angry, bitter left who frequent these Internet chat boards never seem to be able to offer anything constructive. It is always hate hate hate – exactly what my really cool progressive comrades at A.N.S.W.E.R. and MoveOn.org want to see.

We are following in the goose-steps of Dr. Dean – hate hate hate, followed by no meaningful alternative!

Welcome aboard, comrade, and I would love to buy you an ice-cold lager sometime. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

So, who'd be surprised at anything this lying administration has said or done - it seems that they'd lie if the truth would serve them better. This needs to get out on the blogs and soon.

My god, this government not only got us into Iraq on a big lie, but it is lying again to make the war look less destructive than it is in reality. How many more lies can we tolerate before they destroy the morale and the future of this country. We need to impeach this entire administration, beginning with Bush and Chenney who had made this nightmare possible.

Please don't link to TBRNEWS. It destroys your credibility. DKOS, Source Watch, Wiki, all have info on these people. Use it to check sources or be made to look a fool. Remember Dan Rather.

Please don't link to TBRNEWS. It destroys your credibility. DKOS, Source Watch, Wiki, all have info on these people. Use it to check sources or be made to look a fool. Remember Dan Rather.

ask them yourselves...

HomeLand Hugs..
groups.yahoo.com/group/HomeLandHugs/

chatting with American Military and Civilian contractors in Iraq

Mothers of Amerika. Stop feeding your children to the cannon fodder mill because of cowardly liars!
Mothers Unite Now against Murderer Bush!

If these #'s are kept secret or hidden, then this is an absolute outrage. I still find it hard to believe that we have not reached 2000 casualties fighting the endless war on terror. I say endles because I compare it to the endless war on Drugs. The Terror war and Drug war are endless wars initiated to suck us dry. Our representatives need to get onto the ball in regard to this subject. Congress needs to act.

This is ASTONISHING AND IF TRUE, should be the most impeachable of disclosures that have come out about this administration. The wimpy press needs to get off their collective asses and push this to FULL DISCLOSURE up to and including impeachment.

FOI - A Reporters First Choice...

All anyone would have to do to check this out is to file a Freedom of Information (FOI) request to any of the following:

The German authorities (deaths are a public record both here and there) The DOD, the Hospitals involved, the Military, the White House, Congress, the Life Insurance Companies that pay out the SGLI "Death Benefit" or any number of other relevant government agencies. You could also check out the Hometown News releases of "Gold Star Mothers".

In as much as this would be so easy for anyone to check out, and you didn't, this has less credibity than Dan Blather Reporting....

the problem seems to be that filing under the FOIA doesn't get you very far these days. Been watching the news? More documents are unavailable these days than ever before. Are Senators noticing the unreasonable amount of secrecy surrounding the dead in Iraq? FOIA? Not these days.

Wikipedia, FOIA

Talk about doing research. Did you happen to research FOIA? Do you personally have a higher success rate than most people? If so, do share your secrets.

Wikipedia, FOIA

TBR is not a reliable source. If you want to know what TBR is all about, go to their Home page and click on Booklist.

Here is a much more reliable source:
icasualties.org/oif/Details.aspx

been hearing/reading this since about august 2003. what's really shocking about this is that everyone who is antiwar repeats the govt figures w/o any kind of caveat. what's also shocking is the tunnel vision re "this administration". for iraqis this war began in 91 & hasn't ended. 12 years of sanctions, bombings during the previous administration. count casualties, both iraqi & american starting from 91 (more soldiers died from gulf war syndrome than conflict), & stop publicizing dod propaganda for them. and stop waiting for the lcm (lying corporate media) to "do it's job". it's corporate media, it is doing it's job - protecting its interests (can we say downing street memo). thats what it's been doing since @ least the wilson administration (research edward bernaise, founding father of public relations, also freud's nephew).

speaking of shitty media . . . has anyone noticed this article has generated @ least 50 responses (interest & response - unprecedented for b'more's indymedia site) & the same dusty articles reside in the center column?

Nothing the Bush crime family does surprizes me,I just don't understand why so many people buy his lies. Also I looked at the list and didn't find Pat Tillman's name is the list what the Gov'mt reported?

STFU stupid muslim...

To zoom in use the scale left of the map. When the view is zoomed, you can use the arrows on the map's borders to pan. Also while the view is zoomed, you can click the box below the zoom scale to show an overview map. City names will appear when the map is at its maximum zoom level.

To see more detailed information, roll you mouse over a point and pause to see its name. Clicking on the point will open a new window with the name, age and other information about each soldier from that town who has been killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Soldiers killed by town 1 2-5
6-10 11-29
• Read editor's note on this map
• Tribute to Fla. service members
• Share your condolences
















Mapping and data analysis by William M. Hartnett, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

So this is what bush is doing for america hmm in away its all your own faults you voted him in to power, he lied about his reasons for declaring war on iraq when he said there was weapons of mass destruction but the only weapon of mass destruction is him. I really think the worlds gone mad.

People have to really wake up and realize just how corrupted everything really is.....

The votes have been rigged ever since they have been using computers for the elections..

If this is true, then what are the names of some of the dead who are not on the official death list?

Those of rational minds and with a vaild concern of the real numbers of US casulties should be aware that this article and the ensuing effort is the product of American Nazis. Just check into their booklist below. LOL!

tbrnews.org/booklist.htm

it's more like 100,000 dead Americans. You fools are IDIOTS!

My email to Rumsfield in Jan 2005 warned him that when the American people find out the true number of dead and wounded in this unjust and unnecessary war in Iraq there would be a uniting of the people again. I estimated then the number of dead to be between 9,000 and 15,000. The information is out there and there is more than one source.

This 9 or 1.5 thousand dead are mostly poor people. 2,300,000 of them are rotten in prison in the USA. We have 10 times larger rate of inprisoment than Europe. If the public does not care about these millions, why should iy be different how many thousands die for oil.

I am so glad to see the other really cool progressives who post here questioning authority and letting people know that Bush Lies and People Dies. Me and Michael Moore and Sean Penn and the other really cool progressives from the left use Internet chat boards to let those in power (like the Washington Post) know that we are on to their propaganda.

The Iraq war is illegal -- all of us really cool progressives know this. But what the corporate controlled media refuses to talk about is how the anti-war movement is mainly a front for really cool socialist/communist organizations like A.N.S.W.E.R. and MoveOn to recruit more really cool progressives.

The corporate controlled media and its propaganda do not bind us. The corporate controlled media, after all, are the ones who gave us the propaganda on 9/11 that it was 19 hijackers and jet airplanes. The really cool progressives like me and the Web Fairy question authority and have intellectual discussion on the fact that it was squib charges and holograms used on 9/11.

Why has the Washington Post not told the truth about 9/11? Are they part of the conspiracy? You can look at the Web Fairy’s really cool progressive Web site and see for a fact it was squib charges that were used to destroy the WTC.

The same goes for Indy Media. They are most certainly infiltrated by Homeland Security and it doesn’t take a balding, paranoid leftist fruitcake to determine that.

There's a lot more going on in the 9/11 cover-up than meets the eye. People who buy every word that the corporate-controlled media says should go buy George Orwell's 1984 and practice up; it won't be long before the hopelessly indoctrinated manage to get the clocks to thirteen here. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

you are not only offensive, you're participating in a censorship campaign. While you don't actually censor, you certainly aim at causing people to censor themselves. At the very least you paint an amusing picture that other people who dislike 'liberals' or people who question 'authority' (or maybe just want to see a few more perspectives, ask a few more questions) can latch on to so that there doesn't need to be anything like a dialogue or interchange of knowledge and beliefs -- a freedom which, i believe, the nation celebrated along with all those other pesky freedoms on the Fourth of July. Funny how such patriotic and democratic people can be labeled 'socialists/communists'. Evidently (and I admittedly am taking advantage of this false, constructed belief system) these liberals, progressives, mothers, fathers (again, I am intentionally evoking a sentiment with such terms as 'mothers' and 'fathers', but this doesn't mean I am lying or falsifying my statement), who get labeled as 'socialists' and 'communists' by you, are not, by definition can not be, patriots.


You participate in a directed and intentional effort to degrade their opinions and beliefs. In the end, you are attempting to scare people away and demonize all associated beliefs and feelings so that you can either spread your political agenda (e.g. cool people can't be serious; this is cool and that's why you dumb fucks are here to begin with) or just get yourself a destructive and inhibiting 5 minutes on the stage.

The only reason I'm here at your site is my gulibal grandmother forwarded your obvious lies. Of course there are more dead if one looks at the military as a whole. The Iraq/Afghan war dead figures are 99% accurate.
P.S. Don't contact me. Since this is a hate site I have no interest in any more rheteric.

If what I have read here is true, then the Country must be told. Write your Rep/Sen and demand a statement of verocity.

Not surprised. You can't trust the government.

FORWARD FROM ROSE KING:
bethetruth2-AT-yahoo.com


This is great!

__________________________

The Hardest Job on this Planet



In a human life there should come a time of consciousness. Not just conscious of the time to go to the bathroom, tie ones shoe, or to even realize that yes, you really are automatically blinking your eyes with NO consciousness; there is also consciousness of concern! For the most part, we also upon some maturity, become mentally conscious of personal feelings, others feelings, morals, and the ethics of what an advanced society calls, guides of human behavior. Some think this is a joke!

How can any human being grow up in this world not knowing what feels good, what sadness is, and of course, what it’s like when we first learn to love something or even, someone. Everyone feels good when you receive say a massage, sit in a warm hot tub, or receive a well placed compliment. Some think it feels good to kill.

You may have received inhuman treatment, or for other universal reasons, have experienced sadness about some life event or maybe an occurrence resulting in an unhappy feeling. Maybe you care when you are experiencing this unhappiness, and maybe you don‘t. Some think killing is inhuman and in direct conflict with the Commandment, “Thou shalt not kill!”

And as far as Love, who hasn’t at some point in time just loved an ice cream cone, or some great life experience, or best of all, loved another human being. Wouldn’t it be great if we all learned to love each other from the inside to the out, instead of from the outside to the in. Or to put it another way, learn to love each other the spiritual being we are first instead of WANTing to love the body before we really love the spiritual being themselves. This would be you serving the spirit before serving the flesh. Some want to love.

So then, there are different degrees of how and what we experience, and as fully compliant human beings, for the most part, we are living and caring and loving and feeling and choosing as a spiritual being, the conscious spiritual being, what degree we want to experience all that comes in each day. Some don’t care where the planet is spinning into.
Let us ponder.
Would you like to know what the definition of multi-dimensional is? It’s the ability to be conscious of all of the above. The feelings of emotions, experiences, sadnesses, love, occurrences, celestial events, and assorted ‘other’ chosen learned lessons both good and bad. It then becomes the simple process of overcoming and ones ability to perceive and survive in a world gone Mad. Of course then, there are those that have no consciousness at all because of life circumstances or personal choice. Let us pray for those born so unfortunate. Some refuse to accept the everlasting truth.

The hardest job is held by the one who thinks about it all and prays for us all. This job belongs traditionally to the Melchizedakian High Priest in His Wilderness Tabernacle. It was His sworn duty to a Higher Power above all things that kept him thinking in a multi-dimensional way. For the sake of mutual understanding, let it be known that all dimensions are in the mind and heart. Where we conceive or not, is the place of the multidimensional worlds we perceive and experience in all the ways previously mentioned. Some call this life.

But by far the hardest part of the hardest Job is when he has to pray for all the deceased and suffering. He gives prayers every time he passes a cemetery. It is his job to pray for the dead and dying. He sees into a bleak future and tries to warn his people of coming tribulations, but to no avail. He prays and puts deep emotional energies into his prayers of hope for our world and for the salvation of the peoples. Prayers that ask the Higher Power to please awaken the mass mind before the torrent of hell breaks loose under the draconian plans of the evil that would subdue us all. He sees into the dismal future the potential for mass amounts of suddenly departed souls.

Departed suddenly from the flesh that houses the spiritual being we are. It is the hardest part of His job to say a last prayer for the forgiveness of all those souls that were not able to give a last prayer. Whether they knew it or not, he would send them to a place of judgment with the best chances ever for making it through those pearly gates.

This is the one that no one loves for his differences that are misunderstood and ways that are far too futuristic for a closed minded society that cares even less for it self. His job is to struggle diligently in an effort to stay alive…and to continue to pray for all those innocents and murdered souls that never knew what, why, or how death came upon them. We give you this Apache pilot’s gun camera capturing the murdering on film to be held as evidence in a world court of war crimes for a later time.
www.prisonplanet.com/011604apachekilling.html

This is the one who seeks the outer reaches of inner space. He prays upon the mountain in witness of only One and asks for mercy for all those soldiers and people in Iraq that don’t even know they are slowly dying from DU poisoning. Little do they all know of the sad suffering they will all experience as they slowly die. The worst part is what the families of these soldiers will go through watching them slowly die.

Why was it so hard to believe that the global domination plan called for the complete elimination of the American military forces in this phony war, and another potential fake propagated war on Iran, Syria, and No. Korea. Why didn’t they listen when they were warned years ago that the plan called for them to be killed off or placed out of this country? This is so when the gov babalonic forces of the evil Oil Empire go to killing off and imprisoning its own US citizens and calling them all seditionists and terrorists for defending freedom and their country, none of the soldiers will be here to defend the American people from the tyranny being implemented now. It’s dam sad to see all our children soldiers are out guarding almost every border in the world but our own, and that they are in every other country but the one they belong in.

And he prays for all those that are unknowingly slowly dying and those that will suffer from being part of the poor soldier’s world. He calls out to God for mercy. He calls out for the right people to take a stand for America and stop this pure insanity NOW! He prays for this country to be saved from the CFR plans to bring her down in a concoction of flames, chaos, tyranny, war, disease, famine, and poverty.

And He prays as part of his eternal job is to care still for a world that seemingly cares not for it self. He prays for those that will never have the chance to say a last “Our Father” or ask for forgiveness. He prays for himself also because being a Modern caring Priest in this time is hard on the Heart and holding up through all this multi-dimensional consciousness is the hardest part of the hardest Job on this planet.

May we please find salvation through truth and have the hope that we all can stop this drive to end free America? May we see an end to oil baron and bankster wars for profit and plunder? The cost is already too high with the deaths of so many innocent and unknowing young peoples, who like the holocaust victims, are blindly marching into the ovens of death thinking it’s a picnic. The US military death toll is possibly over 10,000 between Iraq and Afghanistan. The American people deserve to know the truth. How many more broken families and innocents will it take?
How many more souls will be killed for the lies and corruption of the babalonic regime?

Pray to the very end for a better way…to find its way.

In Holy Service,



PS: A delayed comment for those wicked old CFR members, Bildabergers, and/or other assorted associated minion bags of cow excrement that don’t like the truths of God that get out to the world here:

“If you don’t like Free Speech…shut the fuck up!”

.:Just a little attitude from the Biker era;) please to excuse the punctuation!~

More?!?

Tidbit-an Christian type non-mystery parable lesson #33.33.33 X 360 is:

The matter of my body is made up of the four basic elements of this material world. They are Earth, Air, Water, and Fire. It is up to me to master the matter and its god therefore not allowing it to master me. The I AM that I am is the eternal spiritual being that animates this matter and maintains the bag of water at a cool 98.6 degrees. The I AM that I AM is only passing through borrowing these four elements that assemble into the house or vehicle of me, the soul, the eternal spiritual being having a human experience learning the lessons of growth for the soul, or the treasures that you can take through the eye of the needle.

“Hey Batman, what’s a Secret of Life?”
---Preparing for the next!***

“Gee, does that mean what goes around comes around.”
---Yes, but that is lesson CYCLES #34.34.34 X 370 and just another non-elitist non mystery lesson meant for all real Christians 2.***

“They say Jesus Saves!”
---It’s What He Taught that Saved***
---The Downfall of the Christian religion was when it turned into a religion about the man and it turned him into an idol. Instead, we should all be studying and practicing in a daily walk, What He Taught. This would be true Christianity!***

If this article is true shame on the US government hiding these facts from the American people disgraceful. President Bush please say that this is not what's happening sir? If this article is not true then prove it sir and now.

I am not surprised to read this. There has been quite a bit of discussion about the real count for many months. This nation is probably the most secretive in history. We are supposed to also be keeping count of Civilian Casulties as a result of US Operations. We are not and are most caviler in our refering to "collateral damages."
This is a sad time in our nations history. I do hope that we are able to survive

How is it that this news has not been reported by major newspapers?

Relatives of U.S. Military Casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan: Please help us collect the full list of U.S.Military Casualties -- check the official DoD list and if the name of your loved one is not on the list, please contact info-AT-tbrnews.com with the missing name. Thank you for your help with this matter!

In peace,
Dandelion

The Iraq war is illegal -- all of us really cool progressives know this. But what the corporate controlled media refuses to talk about is how the anti-war movement is mainly a front for really cool socialist/communist organizations like A.N.S.W.E.R. and MoveOn to recruit more really cool progressives.

The corporate controlled media and its propaganda do not bind us. The corporate controlled media, after all, are the ones who gave us the propaganda on 9/11 that it was 19 hijackers and jet airplanes. The really cool progressives like me and the Web Fairy question authority and have intellectual discussion on the fact that it was squib charges and holograms used on 9/11.

Why has Indy Media not allowed the truth to be told about 9/11? Are they part of the conspiracy? You can look at the Web Fairy’s really cool progressive Web site and see for a fact it was squib charges that were used to destroy the WTC.

The same goes for Indy Media. They are most certainly infiltrated by Homeland Security and it doesn’t take a balding, paranoid leftist fruitcake to determine that.

There's a lot more going on in the 9/11 cover-up than meets the eye. People who buy every word that the corporate-controlled media says should go buy George Orwell's 1984 and practice up; it won't be long before the hopelessly indoctrinated manage to get the clocks to thirteen here. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

I spent 4 combat tours in the Republic of Viet Nam. All combat deaths were reported, as they should be, even if they died of wounds after arriving stateside. It is reprehensible to only list those who died on the spot as KIA since the majority will die after they have been evacuated from the field. I have been wondering for a long time how the number of wounded was so high but the number of "combat dead" remained so low. When in God's name will we wake up & arrest this administration?! The death penalty needs to be in effect for them as we find them guilty of High Treason & mass murder.

This is no surprise to the few people who have some sense left. This US administration is in fact one of criminal insanity and evil. Ofcourse they will lie to the public...I cannot believe you would think any better of them.
International Forum

I don't know how Bush can sleep at night with all the lying he and his "partners" in crime do to the American people. My husband proudly served in the US Air Force for 23 years until he got sick and tired of the BS the government was throwing all over the place. Bush, get a hint - these wars have been going on forever over in the Middle East Countries and they will never stop. Why do we have to lose our young people over a war that is not our business - but then you like to stick you nose in all facets of our lives don't you? Get our service people back, build our military back up and keep American safe!!!! By the way, I heard that the base in Maine was on the Base-Closure List, until it was pointed out that you owned a house or land up there. Now, isn't that a little "in your face" to the American people; and don't get me started on out-sourcing of jobs from American to India, Medicaid or the New World Order - you never seem to talk about that do you. One other thing, I think it was your duty to walk down your lane in Crawford County and visit the mother of the fallen soldier. Look how many families you have torn apart. I am so glad you can't run again, but I don't think we will have much of choice. If government officials aren't corrupt when they go into office, they sure are withtin a very short time!!! I guess that money just has a way of turning your feelings off.

it does appear that the US Government is not the absolute honest one. Pity that the US has no viable opposition party to challenge the Republicans.

it's time for a new american revolution. people of usa, stand up to your dictators. soon there will be martial law in your country and protest will be crushed even more than now. your founding fathers would be ashamed to see what your country has become. the time for revolution is now. don't let fascism win. it will if the people don't rise up. (FYI: the forefathers of bush were nazi's, bush flirts with the nazi ideals. the logo that skull and bones uses is the same as the logo of the nazi SS. coincidence?) it's not patriotic to support the current regime, it is when you stand up to their ways of conduct.

我们中国人讨厌你们美国，你门不是人，是牲口！！
We Chinese dislike you for your U.S.A., your door is not the people, but the draught animal! !

Nanny Kao, American devil, you thought you were an overlord in world, rubbish

To all Left / Right Americans, Nazis, Muslims & Jews

Doesn't matter if from the left ot right, hate is still hate.

Doesn't matter if you pulled the gun or threw the bomb or not -- if you WANTED it done or have hate in your heart -- the blood is on your hands.

This world and ALL of her people are doomed unless we can truly find peace and acceptance for ALL other people in our hearts. . . . and find it NOW!

The criminal thugs in Executive, Congressional, and Judicial Branches of this Government are so beyond anything I have ever imagined was possible. These people are the scum of the scum and weak, moraless lying murderers. And to all of the cowards calling Sheehen a Traitor, #$*% You!

I hate you, I really do hate you. You...Naybobs. - Col. Walter E. Kurtz, Apocalypse Now

the jews are just a little bit fucked up in their minds because 50 years ago some nazis nearly wiped them out. and now they want to take revenge on the world. and as for bush and his dogs of war. they lie and lie and lie. time after time. profit and power is the only thing they are interested in. they don't give a f*ck about any of you.

Don't sacrifice our children for Israel.

So, why are they only around 600 names or so on this list?

Shouldn't there be over 1800 (or about 9000) at this point?

It's hard to start a hoopla about something when we [a] don't have the official list and [b] the numbers on the


Signed,

Another tired American who supports his troops and wishes they would come home today.

People who write stories under assumed names have NO credibility. Get a spine, you leftist propagandist. Use your REAL NAME.

The corporate controlled media is hiding the plain truth about Casey Sheehan. All of us really cool progressives know that Homeland Security used a hologram of Casey Sheehan and then used squib charges on his vehicle in order to continue in Bush’s illegal war for oil.

Bush Lies and People Dies.

The Web Fairy and me are on to this hoax and we can prove it was a hoax by looking at really cool progressive 72 dpi images on a really cool progressive Web site.


I am surprised you couldn’t determine the truth – unless you are working for Homeland Security yourself in which case you are just like Amy Fisher and Amy Goodman and the other gatekeepers of the left who I was able to show in a really cool progressive column how un-cool they really were.

The Web Fairy and me are some of the most-cool progressives on the Internet. We can prove that it was holograms and squibs charges used on 9/11 – not the propaganda from the corporate controlled media that led many of you to think it was 19 hijackers and jet airplanes.

There's a lot more going on in the 9/11 cover-up than meets the eye. People who buy every word that the corporate-controlled media says should go buy George Orwell's 1984 and practice up; it won't be long before the hopelessly indoctrinated manage to get the clocks to thirteen here. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

Perhaps progressives among us would like the *real* skivvy on the 9,000 death number? below is your information... directly from the *supposed* source, a very confused Brian Harring.

Apparently, some people will sell out either the Left or the Right, as well as their friends and acquaitances, if they smell a dollar floating.

That said, note that I have tracked this allegation for over three months. It is bogus!

The Bush II Administration, IMHO, would lie about *anything*! If 90,000 had been killed, and they could lie about it, they probably would. So, I expect they have found they can't get away with it.

It is important to remember that even the *Devil* himself can only be guilty of so many things, no matter how hard we try to blame him for all misfortune. The same holds true for GWB.

The 9,000 death figure doesn't hold water.

So, for those needing to protest the lies and chicanery of the Bush administration regarding Iraq and the "War on Terra", contact those groups of Commoners who have found Common Cause with the only goods to call out Dubya: Cindy Sheehan.

The copy of my returned email from Brian Harring, dated 7-18-2005

On Fri, Jul 15, 2005 at 05:16:17PM -0500, Philip Lindsey wrote:

>> Brian,
>>
>> I have been suspicious about who was behind the "Brian Harring"
>> stories coming out for a while. If someone is using your name as a nom de
>> plume, I understand you'd be upset. I just Googled you and came up this
>> below:
>>
>
>>> >http://dev.gentoo.org/~ferringb/long_term_saving/lifted_name/email
>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand, it appears a right wing disinformation source
>> (regarding DU, primarily, but speaking of the 9,000 supposed dead
>> presently) is using you (and quoting you, I think) and your name to promote
>> some right wing ideas, i.e., "Uranium is *good* for a person", etc.,.
>>
>> If you can confirm to me what *is* happening, I can try and quiet it
>> down in some Yahoo groups. TBR can create much trouble for both wings of
>> politics if it disseminating bad information.

Frankly, not a helluva lot more to say about Pete(r) stahl, aka Walter
Storch, aka Gregory Douglas, aka Edgar J. Steele then what I
originally posted. Lifting of name appears to have started with some
*very* bad computer security articles, from there he managed to stir
up some people enough that I started getting emails (initially
confused the hell out of me, to say the least).

I've not written anything for pete, and pretty much the whole
situation now has degenerated into threats (both via him and his
publisher) of vague lawsuits and being told to (essentially) shut up,
or they'll state I cracked gov. systems... which is a bit of anethema
to anyone doing computer work for a living.

Good analogy, you don't hire a guy to be a security guard if there are
(whether bullshit or not) rumours of untrustworthy behaviour.

Considering my life is pretty much sitting in front of the computer,
either doing comp work for pay, or doing it for enjoyment (open
source) this blackmail isn't exactly desired, and sticking a
disclaimer out as I did via the blog seemed like the best approach.

Don't know how much you've dug into it, but what you found above is
just long term savings, there's no explanation as to how I know pete,
that is provided via
dev.gentoo.org/~ferringb/blog/archives/2005-07.html .
Basically got hauled down to fix a win95 box by a friend of pete's
current roommate; weird bugger, but struck me as a harmless eccentric.
Friend wound up living with him, visited on occasion, finally in sept
of '04 left WI, leaving few with my new #, and added a killfile to
block email from people I didn't care to hear from again.

Removed the killfile after I became aware of what was going on, but by
that time dandelion books was sniffing about and I essentially got
the middle finger from both of 'em, exacerabated by the fact I decided
to speak up rather then let them do this.

Any questions, give a yell- might be a bit of a delay in email, mainly
since I'm enjoying being offline avoiding all of this crap, but I'll
respond when I pop back on.
~harring

I am not a Bush supporter but your report is so much falderal. Was a Dr. in the Viet Nam conflict so I know something about body counts. Your report is unsupportable

Come on people ... I love a good conspiricy as much as the next sponge-brain but ... 7000 people not reported dead? That means there are 10's of thousands of parents, spouses, siblings and friends who don't know their loved one is dead?

This Psyop is NOT funny!

All over the world??? PRAY FOR THE DEATH OF ZIONISM ALL OVER THE WORLD! RID THE WORLD OF THESE FACISTS BASTARDS! KILL THEM ALL! LET GOD SORT THEM OUT! ;-)

I believe...I ALWAYS believed that the Bush administration was lying about numbers of deaths in Iraq.
No news to me. What´s news is that someone is now trying to uncover the mass-murdering of people caused by this President.

Why don't we hear about the, just ask the president's mother.


As the argument over this censorship continues, I hope people remember a widely-quoted remark made by the president's mother, Barbara Bush, last year during the build-up of the war - the lying time.

*************
"Why should we hear about body bags and deaths," Barbara Bush said on ABC's "Good Morning America" on March 18, 2003. "Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
***************
This is how much they care about your son,daughter,father,mother,brother or sister. So much for the RIGHT TO LIFE Christian attitude, I guess they are exempt from the THOU SHALT NOT KILL thing!

Everyone should write their Senators and Representatives demanding to know the truth, whether or not they know of unlisted dead.

I can only recommend that one take a look at three very good website. They are:

www.thepowerhour.com and www.infowars.com and
www.letsroll911.org. If their lying about the death toll you might as well know they lied about 911 as well.

Need more proof go to Google and type in Northwoods Document or Operation Northwoods and read for your self what the government is capable of doing. i.e flying commercial airliners into government buildings and blaming it on an a so called enenmy. The sooner you realize who the real enemy is the sooner you can do something about it. Try to think outside the Hegalian box (left,right) they try to place you.

It's about god damned time someone did this!! Are you military mothers and fathers stupid or just slow or in TOTAL denial???

It is good for us really cool progressives to question authority. We are constantly subjected to the jingoistic flag waving of the corporate controlled media that is in full support of the illegal Bush war for oil in Iraq.

That is why I post on really cool progressive Web sites and why I question authority. The Internet allows really cool progressives like me and the Web Fairy to post our views as indisputable facts. The corporate controlled media and its propaganda do not bind us. The corporate controlled media, after all, are the ones who gave us the propaganda on 9/11 that it was 19 hijackers and jet airplanes.

The really cool progressives like me and the Web Fairy question authority and have intellectual discussion on the fact that it was squib charges and holograms used on 9/11. I am somewhat of an expert on 9/11. I can look at a 72 dpi image on a really cool progressive Web site and tell you more than any aerospace or civil engineer what really happened. Me and the Web Fairy question authority, and what we talk about on indie Web sites is pretty much considered fact by the really cool progressives.

There's a lot more going on in the 9/11 cover-up than meets the eye. People who buy every word that the corporate-controlled media says should go buy George Orwell's 1984 and practice up; it won't be long before the hopelessly indoctrinated manage to get the clocks to thirteen here. Peace. – Scott Laughrey

have you seen these DVDs:

911 In Plane Site by Dave von Kleist www.inplanesite.com/

Painful Questions...Painful Deceptions by Eric Hufschmid

911 The Road To Tyranny by Alex Jones www.infowars.com/

If not I would like to send them to you. Let me know where I can mail them.

Thanks

John

PS Go to google and type in Northwoods Document and see what this government is capable of doing.

The WHORE president who speaks to the Almighty in Heaven speaks with a forked tongue on earth.

What about a body count also of Iraqi innocent civilians slaughtered for oil.
The truth shall set you free.

Get a gun.

Bring the war home.

March on Washington.

Have a Civil War.

Kill Kill Kill Kill Kill Kill

Die Die Die Die Die Die Die

Just leave the Poor Iraqis alone...kell each other if killing is you Americans want.

COunt the Bodies in your streets, not Iraq

Some people just don't get it.

They allow their government to send kids to be killed in a war and then get all haughty when someone questions the number of deaths.

How dumb can a person be?

It isn't George Bush's Sons or Daughters that are Dying. It Isn't Condi Rice's Kids that are Dying.

It is dumb stupid suckers' Kids that are dying.

The Rich kIds never die.

How anyone who earns less than a million bucks a year can support Bush and the Neo-cons to continue to govern is a mystery.

He wants to kill you dumb poor fools and you let him start with your kids and think it doesn't matter if the numbers are higher than reported.

It's fun to watch Americans Kill each other.

At least the planet will be rid of some very stupid people.

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed, and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

The medical center, which treated its first patient from OEF in fall 2001, reached the 25,000 patient mark this July Fourth.

“As we fight for our freedom, it’s on the day of our independence that we hit that milestone patient here,” said Col. James M. Francis, Landstuhl commander. “For the staff here at Landstuhl, that was one more workday as usual.”

As best as hospital officials can determine, their 25,000th patient was a female member of the Army National Guard serving in Iraq. She received treatment on July 4 for an orthopedic problem.

“We were able to return her to duty,” Francis said. “It just goes to show the mix and the breadth of what all that we’ve received from the active, reserve and guard components.”

Since its first global war on terrorism-related patient nearly four years ago, Landstuhl has been responsible for treating patients from such notable events as Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan during March 2002; the November 2004 offensive on Fallujah, Iraq; and the female Marines injured this June in Iraq during a suicide bombing attack on their convoy.

The hospital received 152 patients on the day a truck bomb exploded outside the United Nations Headquarters in Baghdad in August 2003.

From brain surgeries to sport injuries, the Landstuhl staff has performed just about every treatment possible. As of July 15, the official tally stood at 25,153 patients treated.

Opened in 1953, Landstuhl is the largest American hospital outside the United States. On average, the 145-bed medical center receives about 30 patients a day. Troops normally stay at Landstuhl between four and seven days. Then, they either return to their units downrange or are flown to the United States for additional treatment.

Prior to the war on terrorism, a day when Landstuhl would receive 30 to 40 patients was considered a mass casualty event. Now, such pace is the norm, and the hospital takes in stride what was once a logistical nightmare.

“We have adapted our way of doing business so that we just absorb those people,” Francis said.

“Their health care is planned from the moment we receive notification that they are coming. They’re triaged to the inpatient or outpatient appropriate location. If it appears that they may need to have surgery, their surgery is already being planned before the plane hits the ground.”

www.estripes.com/article.asp

Oops, wrong link... here's the correct one. And for all you mental reject Bushbots who keep spewing your nonsense, go ahead and read Stars and Stripes and tell me that the main US hospital in Germany that all injured soldiers are transported to directly from the battlefield in Iraq need to deal with reality. Go to the link and see for yourself. Retards. Get a clue and get some real news instead of the infotainment propaganda on CNN, NBC and Fox.

Try www.democracynow.org and www.whatreallyhappened.com

www.estripes.com/article.asp

Zionism is just a cult of mentally sick evil pigs......

Just to let you all know, the official newspaper and website of the US military, "Stars and Stripes", reported two months ago that the figure of serious casualties that had been treated at the US hospital in Germany surpassed 25,000 on July 4th, 2005.

www.estripes.com/article.asp

Ditto to what George said.

Anybody that believes the tripe printed about the 9000 dead needs to go take their medication.

Does this really suprise anyone ?This administration keeps telling lies and stupid Americans even catching the lies still believes them.I never realized how stupid at least 1/2 this country is until now .This country is finished in my opinion.

TO: Editor, Publisher or Daycare manager for same: RE:baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/10554

OK, I'll buy that a few more soldiers might have died than are reported, as even the Post Office can't account for all the stamps it loses every year. But your web site loses credibility when it surmises that 7,000 soldiers have been deliberately unreported. You obviously do not know the military.

Fact: Just as the young soldiers in the INFANTRY are brainwashed into thinking it is "good to die for your country", so are the soldiers in GRAVES REGISTRATION on a mission to keep it accurate to protect their own asses. You obviously don't know how bureaucratic the military administration is. A wounded soldier is followed by mounds of paperwork in a file that isn't closed until the death is confirmed. In other words, until that soldier is declared dead to all, the paycheck keeps coming and that platoon cannot add a replacement due to budget restrictions. From the military's point of view, they are always underfunded. Thus, sad to say, they are anxious to report the death to stop the soldier's paychecks There are numerous other military departments with personnel who have the same proprietary interest in reporting a death for the sake of their own skin, but if you really want the facts, which I fear you don't, I have given you enough data to cancel this ridiculous witch hunt and start reporting the true facts about a poorly executed, if necessary at all, Iraq campaign.

Now, worse than the ludicrous premise above, is the following: I have copied your message below to highlight your confusion. Here goes:
Your words....
From our many emails, we have discovered that millions of Americans are fed up with:

1) lies, .....POSSIBLY, depends on your party affiliation (Great quote from the film, "The Wild Bunch"..."It don't matter that you told a lie, it's who you told it to." :)

2) continued military deaths and cripplings,....Yes

3) rising oil and gas prices,...You simply ignore cause and effect. Government's interference in the oil market place, starting with price controls 40 years ago has killed the incentive for oil companies to build new refineries. Socialists like you, in the media have made the oil companies the bad guys, so the ignorant masses, go into the voting booth and vote for any socialist who is against oil companies, resulting in politicians who want to kill the goose that has been laying the golden egg, The Results are $3 per gallon at the pumps, (of which nearly a buck is taxes!!) Send someone on your staff to the library and bring in the fresh air of intelligence to your site.

4) attempts to ruin Social Security....I can hardly believe that anyone but Commie Guru Karl Marx would miss the point that Social Security was RUINED the minute it was signed into law. The insane idea of taxing workers and giving the cash to politicians to "manage" was fought against, but FDR convinced the sheep that nobody will save unless the Gov't steals cash for your own sake in retirement. Logical thinkers in the 30's asked Congress to simply require employers to require employees to show proof of having a private pension plan, (like all Politicians had and still have today). Recent data reveals that while the average SS payment today is $700 a month, that retired employees same contributions over the last 40 years into a private pension plan would be $3800. Duh!!! Ironically, George Bush is getting vilified for "dismantling Social Security." Sadly again, he isn't dismantling it!! He is fighting to allow 4% to be put into a private account, GEE, 4 bucks out of a hundred. Politicians should all be ashamed for getting the public in an uproar over such trivia. We should all be in an uproar that Politicians are EXEMPT fro SS. Why? Because THEY CAN!! And you want more of these clowns running the show for you?

5) the disappearance of private, pensions .....Enron's pension fund would never have collapsed if the Feds had stayed out of the mess and let the market place deal with the assets. Instead the FEDS heroically shut it down and rendered all stock worthless. Enron execs were irrational and criminal, but the SEC was supposed to be our protector, and signed off on ENRON'S financial plans long before they got into trouble. Other pension plans, like that of United Airlines are going broke because United was bought by the employees who decided that the Business Purpose of UA, was NOT to be the best Airline, but rather The purpose was to provide the most benefits to employees. The employees managed Board and the employees ate themselves away from the inside. Does anyone on your staff READ the financial page??

6) and soon, government pensions ......These should be abolished anyway. When have your ever heard of a Gov't pension being dissolved?? If Politicians and Gov't employees were required to have the same SS and pension restrictions as the rest of us poor slobs, things would change rapidly. We are simply on the outside looking in. Too late, I'm afraid.

7) and an explosion of corporate greed, thievery .... The marketplace handles greed in the right way, theft is a proprietary issue that always has to be protected against through the efforts of the victim, not the Gov't. That's how police states are formed. Surely this has to be clear to you and your staff. (I just flashed on the fact that you are probably a high school student, working alone in your garage. If so, I commend you for an important looking web site, and only condemn you for its unintelligent contents.

8) unaccountability that is making America little better than a Third World country, ......We are there pal. Come to LA where English is the second language. What you socialists don't, and won't, understand is that fact that your bleeding heart, anti-free-enterprise philosophy is the cause of it all.

9) enriching top business leaders and members of the government and destroying the basic social, economic and moral fabric of our Republic. The basic fabric was torn when the Declaration of Independence was thrown out and the Constitution was put in. The first said "un"alienable (sic) rights", and the second said "We Grant you these rights" It took 100 years for the public to learn how to vote for get free things by electing politicians to get fee stuff, rather than voting for politicians to protect what we privately own, as it had been since 1778. Without politicians, who only want to "fairly" spread all of the stolen tax dollars to "do good" for their constituents, there would be no one for corporate leaders to bribe to "enrich themselves" outside of the free market. Without politicians, whom you seem eager to have SAVE US from the collapse, there wouldn't be a collapse. Without politicians, property could only be exchanged by mutual agreement and not by force. (To wit..The recent Supreme Court ruling to allow the seizure of your home if politicians can get more tax revenue from a hotel.)

What is needed, and needed badly before it is too late, is to:

Honor the more than 8,000 U.S. Military who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan? ................Honor them by revealing the Military's error-ridden strategies in the hope that the same mistakes won't be repeated. Drop this insane 9000 unreported dead and in the process begin to be seen a serious journalist with a professional web site!

and the over 25,000 young soldiers that have been seriously wounded, many crippled for life. War is hell and would never be waged except by political decree. Can you imagine Microsoft buying weapons and recruiting soldiers to die for them to take over IRAQ to gain market share?

The current Administration wants wounded soldiers in American hospitals to pay for their own food! ??? Wow, you need help!

So, who ever you are. Take this as an educational tool if you are only 18, but if you are an adult, you need serious counseling or education, or both. Your web site is an uneducated, but hopefully well meaning, and simply immature publication aimed at getting a few fellow socialists to send in some cash. I hope you can pay your rent with your windfall. But if the current lack of knowledge continues on your website, you'll be gone by September. But you'll probably have to start school by then anyway.

Whew!!

James

icasualties.org/oif/ here is a sight that gives a full list of causualties. also on the sight it gives a full list of soilders that died outside of the country, such as germany , or the usa .

Once America defaulted to a mercenary military you all pretty much lost any right to comment on how and when and where it is used. You may complain about the cost. But i think the military pretty much has the power to take whatever it needs from whomever may have it.
The draft was lifted way back when and since then all members are volunter militia.
No taxation without representation applies to commenting on items without your influence. This is all just noise. So pat yourselves on the back for making a lot of noise in a moralistic fashion without any direct consquence. Just the way your forefathers asked for it. Burn your draft card and accept the consequences. A country consists of citizens who particpate equally. Abdicate your military particiaption and relinquish your right to participate in its use. And thank you for your support by being well to do tax payers. Be nice to the foriegn mercenary troups that will be coopererating with our own military as brothers in arms as they may need to appropriate your homes, fortunes and life in the pursuit of protecting your silly asses from the duties of citizenship.
Like they say if you didn't vote you can't complain.

Although the VA is, by law, adversarial to veterans and their families, they are a potential source of information. If they are not cooperative, FOIA requests will be necessary. Since many veterans organizations receive funding from the VA (representing govt, not veterans interests), they are beholden to the $. Sadly, even the VVOA embraces and honors administration officials instead of being pro-active.
Let justice be done though the heavens may fall.

I will soon be giving a speech where I will reveal that the actual number of Americans killed in Iraq is over 300,000,000. Help me get the truth out!

Well let me Tell you that the IRAQ is the LAND of SUFISM and GREAT WARRIORS, what big mistake the AMERICA has done in the WAR AGAINST ISLAM, they choose a very wrong country, DONT YOU AMRICANS beleive this, please WAKE UP, regarding the Actual Casuality of number shown of 9000, is true or not, I just wanna tell all of you AMERICANS , is that what I could see the casuality of Americans, is like a WAVE of DEAD SOLDIERS in the land of DESSERT, its not 1875 or 9000 but FAR FAR and FAR more that your expectation, JUST with the one words for your understanding is that AMERICA is fighting with the INVISIBLE ARMY- THE ARMY OF GOD, if you dont agree just ask any of the soldiers who returned from IRAQ, he would give you the detail, SINCE this WAR will lead the AMERICA into the HELL thats for SURE, and its not my prediction, its a REALLY REALLY fact. WITH using WAR AGAINST ISLAM, America has himself open the grave of dead for their own peoplz DONT U AGREE!!!!!! if not I really really feel pity on this!! MAY GOD BLESS all of you AMERICAN. Let me tell you " THIS IS THE BEGINING of THE END OF AMERICA "

Well, I told the President when I emailed him; Humpty dumpty sat on a wall, humpty dumpty had a great fall! All the kings horses and all the kings men just couldn't put together humpty dumpty together again! ((The more things change, the more they stay the same)). It's time we get this nation a new face lift over we are going to suffer the consequences for Abu Gharib and Guantonomo Bay Cuba! (Whatever the spelling)We thought we seen Nazi Germany? We haven't seen nothing yet! Because all over the world, average everyday world citizens are hating us because of our so-called leaders. Just like what D.A. Jim Garrison said along time ago when he investigated the assassination of JFK, ((Let justice be done, though the heavens fall!)) You know what? There better be some justice dished out or we Americans had better pack up and leave this nation or start learning responsabilty as a nation. Abu Gharib is evidence that we should think about 2 notions. Take responsability, or pack our bags and leave this nation. The way things are going further in Abu Gharib, as a Ex-Marine soldier and a son of a former World War 2 veteran officer under General Patten, it continues, I'm going to pack my bags and leave! Hey! ((Let justice be done though the heavens fall)) >>>District Attorney Jim Garrison, you got that one right!

Someone just pulled this number out of their butt? This number has been floating around for months. Maybe the number should be 20,000.

You know also that mokeys fly out of my butt also

It is time to forget about counting the number of U.S. Troops who have died in any one given theatre of Operations.

During World War Two, the number of dead were counted as a whole, wheter they were killed in the European Theatre of Operations or in the Pacific Battle Area.

Don't count the dead for each location seperately.

In the War against Terrorism, as the Bushidiots call it, the number of soldiers killed should start on 9/11.

Begin with those who died at the Pentagon, then count the soldiers killed in Afghaistan, then count those killed in Iraq, and then include anyone who served in either but died outside the country where the battles were actually being fought. A soldier who dies of his injuries recieved on a battlefield who later dies as a result of those wounds in a US hospital is still a casualty in the greater so-called war on Terrorism.

Wake up you dumb American brainwashed fools!

well i have read down the list of responses to this artical , and i yet to see one persons name listed in here , that is not listed on the d.o.d list.

It seems that there may indeed be something to this. I recently moved from my long-time home state of Virginia; prior to the move, I wrote Senator Warner (Chairman of the Armed Services Committee), and asked him to comment on three items: 1. Was he aware of the reports of DoD under-reporting American dead by not counting those who died in Germany or elsewhere as a result of wounds suffered in Iraq; 2. How could he make the case that the Iraqi military operation was making Americans safer when even the CIA has reported that Iraq has become a magnet for anti-Americanism and a training ground for terrorists and 3. Would he please tell me, as a contituent, exactly what "the mission" that Bush keeps talking about actually is, since he is among Bush's supporters. I never received even an acknowledgement of my inquiry, much less an answer.
If war veterans are now wearing 'bullshit protectors' at Bush's speeches, imagine the country's reaction if this story turns out to be true.

If Indymedia is ever to be able to be taken seriously as a valid source of information, every IMC must learn to practice the basic principles of journalism. This includes quality control, especially fact checking.

See:

www.sbindymedia.org/newswire/display/2591/index.php


Indymedia must also stop publishing enemy propaganda. It is inexcusably bad politics. If you help our enemies, you are one.

See:

www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php



>This is reminiscent of COINTELPRO

See:

sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/1666652.php

and:

sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/1555696_comment.php

Maybe we had better pause, take a long breath, and realize we are in this for the long haul. We can not just go in, destroy part of a country, and then walk away. No matter how painful, it looks as though we have no choice but to finsih the job.
If that is at all possible.
Let's support our troops and may God bless them.

I haven't believed anything this administration has said since they had a man i had hencetofore admired lie before the United Nations. We;re now at war and stuck there. Atrocious

I still find it hard to believe that this country is involved in this quagmire. How could so many people be so stupid, have the wool pulled over their eyes or (even harder to believe) actually believe that Bush and his administration deserved a second chance to screw the country up even further? Why would anyone at this point believe anything that any of those people say? Of course there are more dead soldiers than they are telling "their" country! And there will be more and more--and more and more innocent people as well. It is disgusting that this administration has been allowed to run amok with its bad policies and endanger the lives of all Americans more than any other group of people in history. Hopefully this information will get out and people will wake up! But if they haven't so far what will actually make that happen?

No war for Israel. The children of Israel that we Muslim believe are not the neocon Zionist Jews. They are devilish. How could the rubbush claim that he is in God,s camp fighting the axis of evil. Now is the time either you are with us or with the devil.

God bless the righteous.
"Except that your righteuosness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees
ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven"

Hell- It is too good for evil bastards.

“Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.”

-- Henry Kissinger

Arrest Bush 41 to prevent "another 9/11" ... Google and type in "The FBI uses polygraphs to eliminate suspects"

and if certain news sources are even only 1/2 accuarate, the real daily number may lie between 75 and 100 troops a day. Dead, Gone, Used, Manipulated, Lied to....

you are all crazy!!

1/3 of US troops are foreign nationals?

the numbers you show add up to almost 50% casualties (with death, disability, desertions)

i thought returned vets were psychotic basket cases, incapable of functioning, but it says here they are well-trained, discilplined organizers?

duhhh.... "military personel that die in non-combat situations are not counted towards" combat deaths ?

the Mossaud, not moslems, is actually fighting against us in Iraq?

you guys are fucking stupid if you belive this stupid conspiracy theory nonsense. i hate bush and all his cronies too but come on one, lets be real and think about this.....

Nope. Far right hoax from The Barnes Review, a neo-fascist periodical.
www.tbrnews.org
Stan Goff, former USMC, at stangoff.com or .org has refuted this. He's a marxist, btw.See his book, "Full Spectrum Dominance."

The day the Russian Ambassador was leaving Iraq by Car Envoy, and he was attacked by the US. Troopers thinking that he was either smuggling Saddam out or Saddam's personal files and data that prooves George Bush SR and Rumsfeld's filthy roles with Saddam personally, the Russian were undercover guarded by 100 to 125 Iraqi Rupublican Guards that began slamming the US troops like there is no tomorrow killing somewhere between 700 to 750 AMERICANS IN ONE HOUR, and the Russian Ambasador's driver was killed and his guard was hit in the leg and was rushed to Damascus to be hospitalized later to Moscow !!!! And one the same evening Conda Rice took an urgent flight to Moscow to Kiss ass and explain what had happened though the Russian Ambassador had notified the US. with his route to stand down and off his course.

This was published in the main Russian and german along with the French main papers. NOT a word in America.!!

700 in one day!!!!

If it comes out that the Bush government has been lying about the KIA they will be finished!
And I do recall they had a problem with the accurate number of KIA and blamed it on a computer change!
The media caught this LIE(error).

It might explain why they won't let families or the press view the cassets.
I find this as wrong, this is part of the healing process for the families.

But who can claim the Bush administration cares!

Should we be surprised. The USA got away with bombing laos for quite some time, how hard is it to hide a few extra bodies?

I have forwarded this to everyone I know.

Oh boy. That figure is four-and-a-half times larger than the official death count. It seems
like America has been had. I voted for him. I
feel bad. 'W' is from my home state of Texas.
If WWIII erupts, Texas would be blamed for the
mess. I hope that Aaron C. Donahue succeeds in
his mission. Good Luck Aaron!

Best Regards,
Kai Soon Joe

Someone should tell the Jews, and the Zionists, that the word "Semite" refers to the Arabs and the Jews. In other words, you cannot accuse the Arabs of "Anti-semitism". Arabs and Jews have the same Semitic facial characteristics. Namely, olive complexions, hooked noses, big mouths and fat lower lips. The vast majority of the Semites are short people.
All Semites write from the right to the left, do not eat pork, and practice circumcision.
All Semites are also prolific breeders.
All Semites believe in Moses and the 10 Commandments.
So, why is there so much animosity between them?
The problem started when the Jews stole the Palestinian's land and created the Zionist State of Israel. Before 1948 the Jewish and Arab Semites leaved together in peace. By the way, peace in Arabic is "Salam". In Hebrew it is "Shalom". All Semites say "Peace be with you, when they meet!

This is not true. It is based on a disinformation news story that was put out by TBRNews. He continues to report that the Pentagon is not including certain casualties even though we have shown him that they do.

We at Antiwar.com track every GI death around the globe and every one is being counted regardless of where they die. Here is a list of GIs wounded in Iraq who died elsewhere.
icasualties.org/oif/Dow.aspx

Do you count the "green card" soldiers?

You american people put down the Bush(serial murder), he`s killing your future with a stupid war!

It amazes me that our nation has not started the 2nd Revolution. The administration that rules this country has created a totalitarian regime that makes the colonist's beef with the homeland of England seem a historical footnote. We have only ourselves to blame. Only 40% of eligible voters exercise that right. Less than 17% of all registered voters between the ages of 18-25 voted in 2004. Until the government pulls the plug on televised professional sports, doubles the price of beer and cigarettes, and takes away the right to bear arms...well, there will not be a revolution. The government knows that average Americans are like sheep to slaughter.

We were told that America and NATO lost only 2 planes and no servicemen in the war with Serbia back in 1999. I was in Serbia recently and talked to people who witnessed something far different. They told me NATO lost scores of aircraft (fighters and bombers) , anywhere from 60 to 80. At least half of the airmen in those planes died. Most of these were American airplanes. At least 7 troop carrying helicopters were shot down along with their occupants, resulting in the deaths of at least 150 soldiers. These helicopters were sent into to Serbia to rescue downed pilots and airmen. Most of the soldiers on board were also American. America and NATO lost a minimum of 200 servicemen and a maximun of over 400. However, this has been successfully covered up. The next of kin are told they died in accidents, such as auto accidents and training accidents. The military personnel who know the truth are told to keep quiet or be drummed out of the service and put in Fort Leavenworth. They are sworn to secrecy. I don't believe the people in Serbia were lying. NATO could not fly below 15,000 feet. How would they have known that unless they did fly below that altitude and took heavy losses. It was never their original intent to fly above 15,000 feet. Their mission was to knock out the Serb army on the ground, especially its tanks and other vehicles. You have to come down to almost tree top level, certainly below 15,00 feet to do that. They obviously tried it and got stung very badly. Later on they fabricated the lie that it was never their intention to fly below 15,000 feet. And the American people for the most part believed it. Furthermore, it defies common sense that you can fight a war for 78 days and suffer no losses. The point of the foregoing is to show that the American government does lie about casualties, because it knows that is its Achilles heel. Other governments do the same thing. I believe the true death count in Iraq is at least 3 times what we are being told up to a maximum of 4 times. So if you multiply 1900 by 3 that comes out to 5700. If you multiply it by 4 that comes to 7600. I think the true death rate is anywhere between those 2 figures.

I can't believe you actually reporting this BS.

I am not suprised at anything this adm.does.I have also read that the many mercenaries hired at 1,000-15,000/day are not counted.What a shame that such a dishonest gov.can stay in power;are all true Americans cowards?

63 deceased listed here - out of 14,000 wounded? yep, sure
icasualties.org/oif/Dow.aspx

Date Name Cause Country of Death
08/28/05 Kolath, Obediah J. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Germany
08/10/05 Benson, Michael A. Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb USA
08/05/05 Ball Jr., Terry W. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
08/04/05 Simon, Chad J. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
07/14/05 Hines Jr., Timothy J. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
06/21/05 Milev, Marin Milev Non-hostile - vehicle accident (drowning) Germany
06/13/05 Mattek Jr., John J. Hostile - hostile fire - explosion USA
06/03/05 Mendoza, Antonio Hostile - hostile fire - explosion USA
05/24/05 Collins, Randy D. Hostile - hostile fire - mortar attack USA
05/22/05 Seesan, Aaron N. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Germany
05/11/05 Schmidt III, John T. Hostile - hostile fire - explosion USA
05/10/05 Bordelon, Michael J. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
05/02/05 Little, Tommy S. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
04/12/05 Dickens, Tyler J. Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack (?) USA
04/09/05 LaWare, Casey M. Non-hostile - building fire Germany
03/04/05 Garceau, Seth K. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Germany
03/03/05 Jones, Michael D. Non-hostile - illness USA
01/04/05 Washington, Bennie J. Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack USA
12/29/04 Nelson, Craig L. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
12/09/04 Renehan, Kyle J. Hostile - hostile fire - mortar attack Germany
12/01/04 Pena, Javier Obleas-Prado Hostile - hostile fire Germany
11/27/04 Smith, Michael A. Hostile - hostile fire - sniper USA
11/24/04 Nolte, Nicholas S. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
11/23/04 Edinger, Benjamin C. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
11/20/04 Heredia, Joseph J. Hostile - hostile fire Germany
11/20/04 Welke, Joseph T. Hostile - hostile fire Germany
11/19/04 Downey, Michael A. Hostile - hostile fire - sniper USA
11/07/04 McVey, Otie Joseph Non-hostile - illness USA
10/22/04 Gadsden, Jonathan E. Hostile - hostile fire USA
10/13/04 Baker, Ronald W. Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb Germany
10/03/04 Pettaway Jr., James L. Non-hostile - vehicle accident USA
09/30/04 Nolan, Allen Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
09/28/04 Prewitt, Tyler D. Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack Germany
09/19/04 Adams, Brandon E. Hostile - hostile fire - grenade USA
08/09/04 Houghton, Andrew R. Hostile - hostile fire - RPG attack USA
08/05/04 McCune, Donald R. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Germany
07/21/04 Engel, Mark E. Hostile - hostile fire USA
07/15/04 Mardis Jr., Paul C. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
07/02/04 Martin, Stephen G. Hostile - hostile fire - car bomb USA
06/03/04 Bolding, Todd J. Hostile - hostile fire Germany
05/18/04 Chaney, William D. Non-hostile - illness Germany
05/08/04 Holmes, James J. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Germany
04/22/04 Dunham, Jason L. Hostile - hostile fire USA
04/20/04 Fox, Bradley C. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack Germany
03/20/04 Vega, Michael W. Hostile - vehicle accident USA
03/19/04 Matthews, Clint Richard "Bones" Non-hostile - vehicle accident Germany
03/18/04 Sutphin, Ernest Harold Non-hostile - vehicle accident Germany
01/05/04 Frist, Luke P. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
12/02/03 Young, Ryan C. Hostile - hostile fire - IED attack USA
11/20/03 Tyrrell, Scott Matthew Non-hostile - ordnance accident USA
11/08/03 Jimenez, Linda C. Non-hostile - accidental fall USA
11/06/03 Fisher, Paul F. Hostile - helicopter crash (missile attack) Germany
10/01/03 Ramos, Tamarra J. Non-hostile - unspecified injury USA
09/16/03 Pinkston, Foster Non-hostile - illness USA
09/07/03 Thompson, Jarrett B. Non-hostile - vehicle accident USA
08/17/03 Ivory, Craig S. Non-hostile - illness - heat related Germany
08/14/03 Kirchhoff, David M. Non-hostile - illness - heatstroke Germany
08/06/03 Colunga, Zeferino E. Non-hostile - illness - acute leukemia Germany
07/12/03 Neusche, Joshua M. Non-hostile - illness - pneumonia? Germany
07/08/03 McKinley, Robert L. Non-hostile - illness - heatstroke Germany
07/04/03 Coons, James Curtis Non-hostile - suicide USA
06/18/03 Latham, William T. Hostile - hostile fire USA
06/01/03 Lambert, Jonathan W. Non-hostile - vehicle accident Germany
04/24/03 Jenkins, Troy David Hostile - hostile fire - bomb Germany

The links provided below report advances in medical treatment that have lowered the mortality rate of soldiers wounded in battle.
Medical Advances, Body Armor Save Lives in Iraq
Medical Advances Help Bring Soldiers Home
Number of Wounded in Action on Rise
Stemming the fatalities with a modern touch

Does anyone know how many "Green Card" Soldiers have died (either on the ground in Iraq or en route to Germany)? My guess is that their deaths are not reported either because their not US citizens.

the anti war , anti american left is always trying ti spin bad news into an "i got you" as a military officer who have been there and knows the impossibility of keeping this idea a secret, i have to completely dis agree with the premise of 9000 dead. the american military are all educated, volunteer young idealists. it is very easy to report this, if it were true, how is the military stopping the private or doctor, or civilian working in the medical system from getting the word out. nothing i write or converse about is monitored by the government or even reviewed, case in point the bloggers in the war zone. if this number were true than that would mean over 100 amonth would have died, a number that large could not be hidden, the number dead could be checked by calling the funeral homes and request the ages and names of those who have had thier funerals paid for by the military, and, or have had veterans affairs headstones paid for. the military can not shut up the funeral directors. this is idea of non us citizens being dumped in the desert or returned to some where else than the u.s. is also false, it is not done, the death toll also takes into account the non citizens who are greater patriots than some of you on the wacky left. all d.o.w. (died of wounds) are are listed as casualties also, see the army website and you will see this. the death roster also includes those that die of accidental deaths.

I think that this has run it's course and that the troops need to come home.. I have been looking for my boyfriend and because of the "rules" they has set up I don't know if he has been wounded or not. I want to find him

*Great idea.* This should be checked into, and in the process, double check the numbers brought forth.

I knew two men who died during the war on their way home...but they aren't counted on any "official" lists..they died in May 2003. Are their lives any less meaningful because they didn't die in combat? All young men who go off to fight are lied too. That's just a sad fact Jack.

Who's counting the dead and wounded among the corporate contractor employees? In other "wars," these would have been bona fide military personnel, no? Their numbers should be
included in overall "USA military presence" in Iraq and Afghanistan, and casualties among such should be counted
as "USA military casualties.

No, civilian contractors are not reported with U.S. casualties (KIA). Again, I am no appologist for Bush and his hacks.

During my war (Vietnam) we had many civilian contractors who were clipped. It is different, these guys know the risks and are very, very well paid. While I am sorry for their families and hate to see anyone die, they do it for money.

Their families are not having to live off of food stamps like our soldiers families.

There is a difference friends between a mercenary and a soldier.

They say that the first casualty in a war situation is the truth. We have established that the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with Global terrorism, Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, or W.M.Ds (Weapons of Mass Destruction). So why is America spending billions of taxpayer dollars every month, and allowing the death and maiming of thousands of American soldiers?
The answer to this question is very simple. America's oil wells are gradually drying up. China is emerging as the worlds second SUPER POWER. Both China and America need vast quantities of oil to sustain their development and long term survival as SUPER POWERS. The Middle East has two thirds of the World's known oil reserves. Capitalism and Communism are two diametrically opposed ideologies commited to destroy each other. We know what happened when the world had a Communist SUPER POWER (Russia). We came very close to World War Three and the end of the human race in a nuclear conflagration.
We all held our breath during the Suez Crisis and the Cuban missile crisis.
America's secret agenda is to control all the oil producing nations in the Middle East and monopolize the oil supply to the world. China needs vast quantities of oil from the Middle East to maintain her rapid development and emerge a second SUPER POWER.
When America monopolizes the oil supply to the world she could restrict the oil supply China desperately needs to maintain her rapid development. The question is: "How will China retaliate when this happens?" I think China will respond with Nuclear, Chemical, and Biological weapons of mass destruction. This will inevitably trigger WW3. I advise you to enjoy yourselves as much as you can because time is running out for Homo Sapiens.

My only sceptical comment is with the military.

Frankly I doubt that honorable General officers would permit the books to be cooked this badly. Many honorable officers and NCO's advised against the folly that has become this war.

While I would put nothing past the neo-con traitors, I still believe in the honor of our officer corp. You can believe that if this story had true "legs" the liberals would be all over this story.

While the "Scooter" indictment IMHO is just the tip of the ice burg, I simply find this story hard to buy.

This is simply wrong. Go to Iraq Casualties.com and you will get the truth regarding this hoax.

I do not like this President, the hacks who are his accomplices or seeing our valient men and women under arms die. Goes double for the Iraqi innocents as they are the "future" terrorists in this criminal war.

We have to be honest though. I have done some investigating of my own, this story is false. Pure and simple. We shouldn't stoop to the level of Bush and the neo-con traitors.

This allegation about 9,000 dead is wrong. Iraqcoalitioncasualites.com has the correct numbers and is accurate with no political ax to grind.

I hate this war just slightly less than Bush and the neo-con traitors who have the blood of over 100,000 on their hands. We do our fallen citizens a diservice when we resort to lies and distortions ourselves. It makes us no better than the snake.

Imagine the billions of dollars being poured into this war monthly, over oil, being put to use finding alternative energy sources. This is simply a disgusting money grab, for person who already have more money than some nations. Bush is not the only world leader that should be held accountable.

What is new about this the Spirit & Truth is in
the Real Kingdom! Man kingdom falls far short of
Spirit and Truth! Deceit Deceit!

The fact that even if we accept the offical us dead account of 2910 + underscores the reason why we fight for the 3000+ died on september 11. If going to war because 3000+ americans died on septenber 11, and now we have surpassed that number in dead us soldiers in Iraq, you could say defeats the purpose.

Thank you to all of our fallen soldiers and the ones that are still in active duty, you are an inspiration to us all, thank you for your hard work and devotion! We love you!

The us govt. has always lied and most people in the usa are too stupid to know it. I think it just shows that inbreeding should not be legal and they should not pick inbreeders for power. We did a page at www.zolaenterprises.com/war.htm on it all and it is spooky how the world is.

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You are in the infringement of applied Xyan con
lately, I' saw.

The antiScholars are at LARGE.
Algebra doesn't always serve as they used to either.

You are in the infringement of applied Xyan con
lately, I' saw.