In an earlier article, I stated incorrectly that David Kay was a "scientist," thereby making an erroneous assumption...one, I have no doubt, 99.9% of the world has made - and was intended to make.
It is a rare instance when the correction of a major factual error in a story actually helps make the case laid out by said story stronger. But my story questioning the credibility of David Kay got a major boost from the detection of an error.
When one hears of a "chief weapons inspector" whose specialty is nuclear arms, whose responsibility is being able to oversee the search, detection, assessment/analysis of sophisticated weaponry and/or the often elusive evidence thereof, what does one automatically envision? Well, if you are a reasonable person with reasonable, even minimal, expectations of what is appropriate, then you probably envision a SCIENTIST. Better yet, a NUCLEAR SCIENTIST, right?
Well, if you do, then you are dead wrong. Just like I was. I made the mistake of ASSUMING that David Kay, a former chief weapons inspector for the UN and now Bush's top pick for the job of turning up even traces of evidence that WMDs exist(ed) in Iraq, was a scientist. In fact, laboring under this illusion, I misread a confusingly worded paragraph in an article describing an interview with Dr. Gordon Prather, a real scientist, in which Prather discussed Dr. Kay. Both men worked under Reagan, but only Prather has the distinction of being a SCIENTIST, let alone chief scientist for the Pentagon.
I was alerted to the error -and the illusion of Kay's competence- by Dr. Prather himself, who wrote a note to inform me that Kay was no scientist - his pHD is is foreign affairs or some other nonscientific discipline. He's about as qualified to search for nukes as Ronald McDonald. Funny, when you search for David Kay's biographical info via google.com, you come up empty handed. Now I see why. Yet this is the man to whom Bush has entrusted one of the most scientifically rigorous tasks possible (the make or break provision of "proof" of WMD)?
To read the original article see:
baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/4430/index.php
So, I guess I can now bask in the august company of the writers at the Washington Post, who contribute on a daily basis to that paper's usually extensive error correction and retraction section! To my credit, at least I know the difference between a "Retired General" and an active weapons peddler, a "mystery" the Post never figured out when referring to Jay Garner.
Here is the note from Dr. Prather and my response:
"David Kay is not a scientist. His PhD is in Foreign Affairs or some such. On the other hand, I am a Physicist and was Chief Scientist for the Army during the Reagan Years. Please don't get me confused with that guy. "
-Dr. Gordon Prather
Dear Dr. Prather,
I just had some time to check the comments in my "Cheryl Seal Reports" articles from the past several days...was delighted to see a comment from yourself...
Believe me, I would be no more likely to confuse you with the odious Mr. Kay that I would be to confuse granite with quicksand! And, from the sounds of it, Mr. Kay's quicksand is a lot "shiftier" than even I suspected! I at least gave him credit for having some sort of science credientials. Jeez! Who will Bush send next as his "chief nuclear WMD expert"? Dr. Laura? I hear she has a degree in physiology, which actually makes her better qualified than "Dr." Kay! But then again, she isn't a former excec of a defense corporation....a serious drawback on her "resume."
Btw - I would have included your credentials in my reference to you, but they went on for five lines! To save space and summarize, I finally just settled for "highly credentialed."
All the best,
Cheryl Seal
Comments
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
28 Jul 2003
How do we fix all this crap that's going down. The only thing I can think of is to vote, and encourage as many people as possible to vote for whoever is running against Bush.
Thanks for your article...
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
28 Jul 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
29 Jul 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
31 Jul 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
01 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
01 Aug 2003
Most "scientists" with a pHD in their name e.g. on TV, talking about genetics, nuclear sciences, environmental problems (or denying those) and medicine, earned it in laws, business, social science or philosophy. Again: Why? When you ask a real scientist about a problem, he would look at it from all sides, state those sides, discuss them and deliver a handfull of different solutions with a recommendation for one or two. You would NOT get a SINGLE, SIMPLE solution which is 100% RIGHT. But that's what politicians want. They need someone telling them which is the one and only solution, and not someone who adds a few problems and complicating the whole mess. Someone who says YES or NO, 0 or 1, 100% and black or white, not someone who says MAYBE, n=0 to 1, 87.6% (not even if you drop a stone will it fall down with a probability of 100%) and infinite shades of grey. So you can't ask a scientist. It's that simple.
PS: As you have surely noticed, I'm a real scientist ;-)
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
01 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
02 Aug 2003
I don't mind the correction to the story, but why the need to trumpet it as if it's some great conspiracy? David Kay is exactly the type of person I'd expect to be heading up the search.
You conspiracy-minded, truth-bending, can't-face-the-real-world nuts are really something.
And one last thing - EVERY single claim I've seen that President Bush lied was a distortion of the truth.
For instance, someone claimed that Bush lied when he said he was against nation building in the 2000 campaign - guess what? 9/11 happened and he had to change his views. That's what normal people do, react to events.
Another case in point is bushwatch.com, which claims that because he promised funding (but no specific amount) then didn't deliver AS MUCH as the organization wanted that he lied. You guys are terrible.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
02 Aug 2003
The beauty of a free press, Bill K is that if you don't like "us liberal indy types," then you can go else where. May I recommend a more appropriate site for you: FreeRepublic.com. You will notice that most of us "liberal indies" hdave better things to do than haunt rightwing sites so we can vent our righteous indignation.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
03 Aug 2003
He assumes we wanted BLIX to conduct any resumed inspections, and the proceeds to attack us because of the fact that Blix is ALSO not a scientist. But many of us who saw his (Blix) behavior during this entire Iraq crisis as inconsistent and timid and TOTALLY insufficient, suspected his motives - and his placement.
During the entire time Bush was executing his LONG-PLANNED (See PNAC) invasion and rape of Iraq, the highly credentialed Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector, was being flayed by operatives within this administration because HE had been saying publicly what needed to be said, which was in complete opposition with the position of the Bush administration. So he suffered from the cowardly character assasination the Bush administration and GOP engage in whenever they face opposition.
In short, many of us suspected Blix all along. We supported the resumption of UN inspections, (something else Bush LIED about when he said they were given the opportunity to go in but where forced out by Saddam. In fact, they were forced out because of the imminent bombing campaign) - but we did NOT necessarily support Blix.
That's a difference the propagandists don't mention - and hopes we don't notice.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
04 Aug 2003
He was formerly a Corporate Senior Vice President at Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC). He was a leader in SAIC's efforts to support the U.S. Government's counter-terrorism initiatives and efforts to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
He served as the UN's Chief Nuclear Weapons Inspector, leading numerous inspections into Iraq following the end of the Gulf War to determine Iraqi nuclear weapons production capability. He led teams that found and identified the scope and extent of Iraqi uranium enrichment activities, located the major Iraqi center for assembly of nuclear weapons, and seized large amounts of documents on the Iraqi nuclear weapons program, spending four days as a Saddam hostage in a Baghdad parking lot. He also led the analysis of the nature of the Iraqi nuclear program and its implications for non-proliferation and arms control activities.
Dr. Kay has frequently testified before Congress, and his articles have appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Christian Science Monitor, The Washington Quarterly and The New Republic, and a number of scholarly journals. He also has appeared on Nightline, McNeal-Lehrer, Today, Good Morning America, CNN and the evening news programs of PBS, ABC, CBS and NBC and has been a frequent BBC commentator on nuclear and defense matters.
He has had fifteen years of international management experience with international organizations and trade associations, including the International Atomic Energy Agency and as Secretary General of the Uranium Institute, in London, United Kingdom, which is the international industrial association for energy from nuclear fuel, comprising 82 companies from 21 countries. Dr. Kay has extensive business experience in Asia, the Middle East, and Europe.
He has served on a number of official U.S. government delegations and government and private advisory commissions, including the Defense Science Board, U.S. State Department's Advisory Commission on International Organizations, the Rockefeller Foundation's Advisory Group on Conflicts in International Relations, and the U.S. Delegation to the UN General Assembly.
Dr. Kay holds a BA degree from the University of Texas at Austin and a Master's in International Affairs and Ph.D. degrees from Columbia University. He is the recipient of the IAEA's Distinguished Service Award and the U.S. Secretary of State's Commendation.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
1. He started right off with the usual name-calling so consisetly observed among ignorant freepers.
2. He goes on to assume that everyone reading this article is a liberal and tells us all that we can't face reality.
Bill K. can't face reality. But he will have to within a few years when the criminal regime collapses. I hereby state that Bill K. is a collaorator to war crimes and should be punished and suffer along with the criminals accordingly.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Dr. David Kay, Senior Research Fellow
Currently Dr. David Kay is a Senior Fellow at the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies with a concentration on counterterrorism and homeland security issues.
He was formerly a Corporate Senior Vice President at Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC). He was a leader in SAIC's efforts to support the U.S. Government's counter-terrorism initiatives and efforts to prevent the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
He served as the UN's Chief Nuclear Weapons Inspector, leading numerous inspections into Iraq following the end of the Gulf War to determine Iraqi nuclear weapons production capability. He led teams that found and identified the scope and extent of Iraqi uranium enrichment activities, located the major Iraqi center for assembly of nuclear weapons, and seized large amounts of documents on the Iraqi nuclear weapons program, spending four days as a Saddam hostage in a Baghdad parking lot. He also led the analysis of the nature of the Iraqi nuclear program and its implications for non-proliferation and arms control activities.
Dr. Kay has frequently testified before Congress, and his articles have appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Christian Science Monitor, The Washington Quarterly and The New Republic, and a number of scholarly journals. He also has appeared on Nightline, McNeal-Lehrer, Today, Good Morning America, CNN and the evening news programs of PBS, ABC, CBS and NBC and has been a frequent BBC commentator on nuclear and defense matters.
He has had fifteen years of international management experience with international organizations and trade associations, including the International Atomic Energy Agency and as Secretary General of the Uranium Institute, in London, United Kingdom, which is the international industrial association for energy from nuclear fuel, comprising 82 companies from 21 countries. Dr. Kay has extensive business experience in Asia, the Middle East, and Europe.
He has served on a number of official U.S. government delegations and government and private advisory commissions, including the Defense Science Board, U.S. State Department's Advisory Commission on International Organizations, the Rockefeller Foundation's Advisory Group on Conflicts in International Relations, and the U.S. Delegation to the UN General Assembly.
Dr. Kay holds a BA degree from the University of Texas at Austin and a Master's in International Affairs and Ph.D. degrees from Columbia University. He is the recipient of the IAEA's Distinguished Service Award and the U.S. Secretary of State's Commendation.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Who Cares, What About Dr. David Kelley?
14 Dec 2005
He was the one man who knew the extent of the Iraqi bioweapons program and knew how the Russians helped set it up.
Funny how he "comitted suicide" and how the Communist infiltrated BBC had a hard on for him.
Smart money says he was offed by a joint operation of the SVR and Mukhabarat remnents.
The Company
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Conversely, does having a degree in a given subject render the holder of said degree an "expert".
The argument of wether or not Dr. Kay is qualified to to properly informed in the field of physics is best known to Dr Kay and his associates. A botanist may be knowledgeable in the field of geology. An economist may be knowledgeable in the field of plumbing, just as a plumber may by markedly learned in economics. An historian may know genetics. A hobo might be the world's foremost foreign relations expert, if but one were to ask him. (The Defense Secretary, in fact, seems to understand less of that field than your average hobo).
I don't support the current administration, it's wars, or it's (lack of) economic policies.
But neither do I support the elitism of academia or the Cult of Expertise.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Conversely, does having a degree in a given subject render the holder of said degree an "expert".
The argument of wether or not Dr. Kay is qualified to to properly informed in the field of physics is best known to Dr Kay and his associates. A botanist may be knowledgeable in the field of geology. An economist may be knowledgeable in the field of plumbing, just as a plumber may by markedly learned in economics. An historian may know genetics. A hobo might be the world's foremost foreign relations expert, if but one were to ask him. (The Defense Secretary, in fact, seems to understand less of that field than your average hobo).
I don't support the current administration, it's wars, or it's (lack of) economic policies.
But neither do I support the elitism of academia or the Cult of Expertise.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Please, i'm a Canadian and i'm tired of seeing your country, our should i say, some assholes in power think they can do whatever the want ond laugh and lie at the rest of the world. It's terrible. Mr. Bill K... Please tell me why then the Halliburton had the reconstruction of Iraq 3 fuckin' months before the war. It's easy to see.. NO??? Please. No more debate and do your duty... Take you country back! You, the american people deserve better than morron goerge. Don't be another "IDONTCARICAN!!!"
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
My god! Mr.Bill K's comment is so, but so depressing. How is it that some of you americans cant smell the MAJOR scam goin on here. George and his oil buddies are up to no good and you can't see it, because some of you are SO wraped up in your so called patritism, that it makes you go blind or what???
Please, i'm a Canadian and i'm tired of seeing your country, or should i say, some assholes in power think they can do whatever the want and laugh and lie at the rest of the world. It's terrible.
Mr. Bill K... Please tell me why then the Halliburton had the reconstruction of Iraq 3 fuckin' months before the war! It's easy to see.. NO??? Please. No more debate and do your duty... Take you country back! You, the american people deserve better than morron goerge and his dummies. Don't be another "IDONTCARICAN!!!" REACT NOW!
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Dr. Kay holds a BA degree from the University of Texas at Austin and a Master's in International Affairs and PhD from Columbia University. Hope this helps.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
www.xymphora.blogspot.com/2003_08_01_xymphora_archive.html
Sunday, August 03, 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
www.xymphora.blogspot.com/2003_08_01_xymphora_archive.html
Sunday, August 03, 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
05 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
06 Aug 2003
Dr. Kay's team uncovered much evidence of Iraq's lies in the mid 1990's - which Iraq admitted to. He may not be a scientist, but what is his actual job? He's got a team of dozens, possibly at times hundreds working for him.
During the previous inspections regime, dealing with Iraqi government officials, and the managerial side of this, was far more important. And that seems like appropriate work for somebody with a degree in foreign affairs.
David Kay is a team manager; scientists work for him and report to him. His previous success in finding illicit weapons demonstrates that he has the skills needed to do the task. Will he do it honestly? No clue. But none of the information in this article shines any light on the matter.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
06 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
07 Aug 2003
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
10 Aug 2003
That must count for something, doesn't it? Doesn't it?! Come on people, cut me some slack.
Re: CHERYL SEAL REPORTS CORRECTION: Bush's Top WMD Inspector David Kay is NOT a scientist of any kind
13 Sep 2006