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Commentary :: U.S. Government

TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

The events of September 11, 2001 were a series of deceptions. For example, there were no planes which hit the World Trade Center.
Tragedy can teach us many things. Some of the lessons we draw from September 11, 2001 are surprising.

For starters, jets flying 450+ M.P.H. into steel buildings make no noise on impact. This is verified with two sources. If you rent the Naudet Brothers’s documentary “911”, fast-forward the tape to where the firemen investigate the gas leak. Seconds later Gedeon Naudet presumably shoots American Airlines 11 (AA 11) flying into the North Tower of the World Trade Center (WTC). We hear the sound of the plane. We hear the explosions. We hear people yelling with astonishment. However, there is no audio of the impact.

Similarly, CNN broadcast footage which shows the same anomaly. (This is said to be from an amateur shooting from the Battery; i.e., the famous shot of United Airlines 175 striking the South Tower seen from the south.) In the audio sequence we hear the sound of the jet plane arriving, the explosions and then people reacting with horror at the spectacular fireball. However, there is no impact sound.

All of the other footage that the TV networks aired of planes striking the WTC disaster is silent. There appears to be no audio of the impacts of either Flight 11 or Flight 175 striking the World Trade Center.

Another lesson learned from 9-11 is that jet planes flying 450+ M.P.H. into steel buildings do not have any parts break off and fall to the ground below. Let’s begin with the already-mentioned CNN video from the south. When reviewing the videotape we can see that UA 175 actually enters the South Tower without any part of a wing, no part of the fuselage, not even a beverage tray breaking off on impact.

Previous experiments on land with heavy objects (e.g., cars, rockets) striking walls at high speed all show large amounts of metallic confetti produced at the juncture of the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object. Still, all of the video footage aired by the news networks capture UA 175 striking and entering the South Tower like a hot knife cuts through melted butter. The extent to the trauma caused from the plane's impact with the building is typically a single flash which quickly appears and disappears in the span of a single frame.

Another surprise with the video footage of UA 175 striking the South Tower is that it is silver. This is the color of American Airlines’s fleet. Unfortunately, United Airlines has a grey and dark-blue color scheme.

Strangely, UA 175 is also not affected by the Sun. For example, sometime during the day of 9/11/01 CNN broadcast more “amateur” footage of UA 175 from a position east of the WTC. In this footage we see the jet arriving in silhouette. It remains in shadow until it disappears into the South Tower.

Yet, UA 175 presumably struck the South Tower at 9:03 a.m. on 9/11/01. It was a beautiful day. The Sun was coming low and to the east at that hour. When shooting UA 175 from the same compass point it should not be in silhouette as it arrives. Now, perhaps the WTC blocks its light as UA 175 draws near. Still, with UA presumably hundreds of feet away from the Twin Towers there is nothing to block the eastern light. The video footage with it arriving from this compass point should not be showing a jet in silhouette.

Shooting video of jet planes which are not affected by sunlight and which do not leave any sound (or material) behind when colliding with immense steel towers might be a challenge for some videographers. However, most of the known amateurs who managed to shoot this highly unique catastrophe employed the professional technique of zooming-out just prior to the arrival of the moment of maximum visual interest.

Consider the spectacular footage of UA 175 striking the South Tower that is currently being sold by Camera Planet. We see (silver) UA 175 arriving. It quickly disappears behind a building. The camera operator suddenly executes a manual zoom-out. The zoom is accomplished in only one second. A small fraction of a second after the camera is zoomed-out UA 175 briefly reappears (in shadow). Then it strikes the South Tower and a spectacular fireball results.

What’s unusual about this? Let's remember how they are made. Zooms are either made manually or automatically. Manual zooms are made by reaching for the lens and turning it. Automatic ones are accomplished by reaching for and then holding down a button on the camera. The Camera Planet zoom-out was made in one second suggesting that it was a manual zoom.

The camera operator starts out presumably holding the camera with two hands, using the stronger of the two as the primary one. While holding it this way he follows the once-in-a-millenium-low-flying jet coming in to strike the South Tower of the World Trade Center. The moment the plane disappears from view he grabs his lens and radically alters the picture. Fortunately, this alteration concludes milliseconds before the plane reappears. There is no problem with grabbing the lens and turning it without hesitation in the correct direction. The zoom-out also doesn't go too far. Finally, the subject does not need reframing mid-way through it. (I'm assuming the author is male because a man takes credit in Camera Plant's voiceover.)

Perhaps this footage was simply a miraculous fluke. Curiously, almost all of the other footage that the TV networks broadcast of UA 175 striking the South Tower features an interesting zoom-out just as the action gets most interesting. New York City was chock full of amateur videographers that day who are highly skilled at making zooms midway through sensational subject matter.

CNN’s infamous view from the south shows the camera is examining the WTC in relative close-up as the North Tower burns. Suddenly, the amateur shooting it expertly zooms out. A second later UA 175 arrives.

Other footage aired by the TV networks from a vantage point east of the WTC show the North Tower close. Then the camera zooms-out, briefly waits and UA 175 arrives.

Pavel Hlava, the lucky Czech immigrant construction worker who managed to shoot both the North and South towers getting hit (between taking the Brooklyn Battery tunnel) has allowed his video to be screened exactly once on network television (09/13/03, Good Morning America. Also Fox News has reported that his agent, Walter Karling, will not give out his phone number and will not speak to the Associated Press.). Still, Hlava’s footage of the South Tower hit, which was very similar to CNN’s footage from the south, follows the pattern. Hlava features a close-up of the North tower burning. Then he expertly zooms out just as UA 175 arrives.

Why did all of these amateur videographers risk losing their subject zoom-out just as UA 175 arrives? Didn’t they feel that the subject matter was already of intense interest to them? Surely this scene didn't need dramatic embellishment added.

The lessons learned from 9/11/01 are unbelievable. The video documentation reveals that jets can fly into steel buildings silently and as efficiently as a hand enters a glove. The Sun also doesn't shine on UA 175; UA 175 remains largely shrouded in shadow even when it is videotaped from the direction of the morning light on a cloudless day. In addition, there are many amateur videographers in New York city with proven credentials with live footage that rival the professionals who cover the Super Bowl. Space precludes mentioning other serious logical problems with the footage.

Either all of these things are true or the TV networks screened video sequences that were fabrications. Thus, tragic events of international consequence are no longer being covered by the news media today. They are being manufactured with needed deceptions taken care of with the assistance of the national news media.

Cinema has come along way since Billy Bitzer was shooting innovative footage for D.W. Griffith at the Biograph studio.

 
 

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Comments

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

There certainly were a lot of well timed and framed shots of that plane impact from carefully composed camera angles; but the same can be said of much of the photography on 9/11. A friend with long experience in architectural photography, and who worked professionally on the WTC at one time, commented that he would have had to look for weeks or months to find the best spots to shoot from to get such well-composed shots, for example the view of both towers from the east with the Woolworth building in the foreground:
www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/wtc-2.jpg

It was a rock-solid tripod mounted camera that caught both collapses.

www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/--=Close-up%20of%20south%20tower%20collapse.mpg

www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/Woolworth_1.mpg

Another remarkable angle of the flt. 175 crash was taken by a camera sitting on the sidewalk next to someone at a cafe table.
home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/NVE00001.jpg

The camera of course happened to be left on and happened to be pointing up at the south tower right where the plane happened to hit (don't you always leave your cameras facing straight up on the ground with the lens cap off?), another real coup of coincidence.

www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/Evan%20Fairbank%20interview,%20WTC-2%20plane%20crash%20footage%20.avi

home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

Thanks Plague Puppy for chiming in.

For those who don't know Plague Puppy's trenchant investigative work, his "cafe" is at:
home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
 

It was a snuff movie.

Yep, we went to war on the basis of a snuff movie, starring 3000 innocent people at the WTC, directed by Bush/Cheny/Rumsfeld, and scripted by big business.
For those who think "but I saw a plane live", here is the documentation that live video animation is a technological reality.

www2.bc.edu/~okeefew/349/rfppixels.htm
 

Re: It was a snuff movie.

Who are you do you have problems. It was not a movie Bush would never do that. Just because you hate Bush doesn't mean he did that. MORON
 

Working link

I've just been told that the link I supplied in the above comment has gone down, so here's another,that was working at the time of posting this.

www.imakenews.com/techreview/e_article000005211.cfm
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

First, I firmly believe that 9/11 was a hoax. The mountain of evidence to prove this is irrefutable. Having said that Mr. Loughreys arguments are pure nonsense and echo in tone the comments of the Webfairy, another dubious source of exaggeration and gibberish. We must give some thought to the possibility that they are "spooks" whose "op" it is to discredit valid 9/11 theory by replacing it with bizarre speculations that make the sane voice of most 9/11 doubters look all the more "kooky." If you doubt that this kind of thing is happening check out this page written by an ex web-spook; lightscion.com/whistleblower.htm
Lets stay away from theorists who make the rest of us look like Trekkies. JB
 

Re: Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

it is not a HOAX
 

Re: Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

hmm that link is sketchy
 

Bad example

Actually the guy who fessed up in that example (Lightscion news sources) had been working as a debunker of "non-official" ideas about 911, not a promoter of them. I'm afraid the corporate media considers even hinting that "Bush knew" or might not have been diligent in pursuing warnings is way out of bounds, almost (?) treasonous. It's made out to be crazy-person talk, and is deliberately lumped with the strangest fringe theories they can find. Don't kid yourself that the media are not part of the coverup and will do whatever they can to discredit all questions, no matter hoow sober and well documented.
 

Put up or shut up.

J. Baker (see comment below) resorts to the usual spook tactics himself, in resorting to personal slander and wild generalisiations. Simply saying that something is " pure nonesense" is not an argument, its just a stubborn repetition of an unsupported opinion. Baker's idea of an argument is to throw around words like "gibberish", and "bizarre speculations" as a substitute for facts and logical deconstruction.

Calling someone a spook and using that to try discredit the argument is circular reasoning at its worst.

"It's nonsense, which proves he's a spook. Aha! because we know he's a spook, that proves that its nonsense."

None of Baker's drivel adds a single fact or logical thread to the issue, its just bigoted ranting.

If Baker thinks thats a real plane, then he's been watching too many cartoons. Real planes don't melt away into nothing. They don't stay silhoetted in full sunlight. They dont grow strange pimples on their underbellies in mid flight. They don't slice into a building without making a hole and without breaking up.

Baker makes no attempt to address these problems, but seems to think that simply using the words "nonsense" and "spook" can substitute for facts or logical argument.

The same tired old linguistic tactics were used ad nauseum to try to advance the ludicrous idea that a hijacked 757 hit the pentagon. I suppose Baker believes that one too?

The same tired old verbal abuse tactics were used to try to discredit the arguments for demolition of the WTC towers. I suppose Baker believes the govt story on that one too?

Baker does this forum a dis-service by simply repeating unsupported , abusively worded conclusions, and throwing around personal slander, rather than engaging in the intelligent debate for which the forum is designed. He should go and work for FOX news where people can get away with that sort of thing.

If he can present facts or logical deconstructions, then he should do so - put up or shut up.
 

I meant "see comment above"

I accidentally wrote "see comment below" in relation to J Baker.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

Apparently I've struck a nerve with Mr. Holmgren. But I won't be resorting to insults. Allow me to clarify my position.

I've spent alot of time trying to make sense of the webfairies website. The implication that I'm shooting from the hip with my commentary isn't true. And I don't use the word gibberish lightly. I find the Webfairies arguments jumbled and incoherent. I don't know how else to put it.

The issue of 9/11 has attracted all manner of theorists, some more believable than others. I seriously embrace theories that alot of people would consider too bizarre to believe. But it's just my opinion, for what its worth, that the Webfairies theories are just too much!

And it's ironic that I should be labeled someone who just makes statements without supporting them. It was from my correspondence with the Webfairy that I first began to have suspicions. It was she who dimissed my inquiries with no explanation. "Phoney-baloney" she called the photo I sent her. No reason why, just total dismissal. My inquiries are typically reasonably well researched, certainly nothing to just brush aside. This and other behaviour on her part raise serious red flags for me, and I don't cast aspersions lightly.

And Gerard, I wrote a lengthy entry on your Pentagon analysis website months ago(Alberta IndyMedia)fully praising and supporting your research into that event. And I couldn't agree more that the list of anomalies concerning Fl. 11 and Fl 175 are substantial and require serious analysis (I'm more of a "Flight of the Bumble Planes" man myself). But holograms? The planes slamming into the WTC were holograms? I'm sorry but that's just way too much! And the Webfairies explanations of her theories on her site just leave me baffled.

Read my articles on Larry Silvestein's comments concerning the 'pulling' of WTC 7. Somehow I don't think that a countercharge accusing me of "spookiness" is going to hold water. Judging from the widespread coverage this story's gotten among reputable voices on the web I feel my comments are made with some validity.

And Gerard, how do you justify scolding me for calling people names when your response to my entry above is so insulting in tone?

I regret that our correspondence has taken on a negative tone. I've enjoyed our e-mails in the past. But this issue with the Webfairy and Mr. Loughrey just leaves me incredulous, especially after her patronizing dismissal of my own work.

A quick note to Vache qui rit. I didn't mean to imply that, in that case, the man in question was pretending to be a 9/11 conspiracist. From what I understand he just haunted 9/11 threads and slammed 9/11 theory. I only meant to say that these people are out there and must be acknowledged. No biggy.

Certainly we can't just automatically embrace all 9/11 theory. I think we need to be careful what we believe and whose theories we embrace or reject. My judgement of the Webfairy and Mr Loughrey are harsh but it's a well considered and heartfelt opinion. Decide for yourself.
 

Still no facts or analysis from Baker

[[But holograms? The planes slamming into the WTC were holograms? I'm sorry but that's just way too much! ]]

Well, that's a convincing argument, isn't it? The use of the word "but" and the observation that its "too much", as well as a double shot of the dreaded "holograms " word. Rivetting stuff !
Such serious research and insightful analysis really convinces me that real planes can melt away into nothing. Such meticulous attention to technical detail is a compelling case that a plane can stay silhoetted even in full sunlight.

In ranting about holograms, Baker shows a lack of understanding of the basics of how to analyze this issue. Holograms are not central to the argument at this stage.
Clearly, the video is a fake plane. But that doesn't necessarily mean its a hologram. What it means is that its a faked video. Everything which appears in that video is explainable through the use of video manipulation. The direct hit footage of the cartoon "plane" was not shown live, so its child's play to put something like that together and air it after the event.
The footage which was shown live does not show the impact. The "plane" disappears behind the tower and we see the explosion, giving the impression that the "plane" has caused the explosion. This footage is entirely explainable by the technology documented in the link I supplied earlier, something which Baker seems desperate to pretend doesn't exist. Quite simple to edit the plane in live. No hologram is required to explain any of this footage, simply video manipulation.
The only reason to suggest a holgram would be if there was significant documented eyewitness evidence to a large plane, indicating that a lot of people claim to have seen it from the street. Such witness accounts are very difficult to find.
Because I have searched for such accounts with little success, I am not convinced that one even needs to speculate a hologram at all.
However, should such speculation become necessary,it's all very well to incredulize "but holograms?" - but, hang on ! - A plane melting away into nothing, a plane growing a pimple on its underbelly in mid flight ? Thats all perfectly normal is it ? If its a choice, then I'll take the holgram, thanks.

What Baker has also failed to think through here, is that if any holgram was used, its not necessarily the same image that we see on the video. It could have been projected from a different angle at a different time, and thus be a completely seperate image from the live video animation. Thus its possible that a really brief ,unstable, poor quality image might have been projected, just enough to make a few people who saw it think that they saw a plane. Nobody is going to say "aha, thats really a hologram ". They'd just think they didn't get a good look at it.The more realistic TV replays then reinforce the deception. So ,even if one is speculating a hologram in order to reconcile witness accounts with what we see on the video,(and one must first produce the witness accounts to justify this process) its erroneous to assume that this implies that the quality of the hologram has to be anywhere near the standard of the fake video. They might have been completely seperate images.
I don't want to go in to bat too hard for a hologram, because I'm not necessarily convinced that one was used. But I'm unimpressed by "arguments" such as

[[But holograms? The planes slamming into the WTC were holograms? I'm sorry but that's just way too much! ]]

As I pointed out in my first reply to Baker. This is not "argument" of any description, its just drivelesque ranting.

What's particularly vicous about this approach from Baker, is that not once in this article does Scott even mention the word "holgram". He lists, quite specifically the impossibilties in the video and concludes, with a sensible researchers caution

[[Either all of these things are true or the TV networks screened video sequences that were fabrications.]]

Unable to counter this obvious fact, Baker resorts to misrepresenting what the article is saying. This is a really low tactic, and common amongst those who have no facts or rational argument to support their position.

Raw, unsupported increduality is not a coherent argument. What is undeniable is that the videos do not show a real plane.


I've mentioned some of the impossibilities of the direct hit footage, so now lets talk about the live footage.

A close examination shows that its defintely not a 767. Its got the distictive "bump on the head " shape, unqiue to 747's - but its only got two engines. According to my searches, no such type of plane exists - ceratinly no type of Boeing.

So in order to speculate that the live footage is a real plane, one must suggest that they built a plane specially for the operation. Then, because the "plane" in the direct hit footage is clearly a bad cartoon, one has to speculate that in addition to going to all the trouble to build a plane specially for the operation, they then, for some unknown reason, edited the real plane out of the direct hit footage to replace it with the cartoon plane.
So who's the one proposing "gibberish"? Who's the one proposing the "bizzare" ? When all of this can be perfectly well explained by the established easily available video manipulation technology referenced in the link provided above.
Baker's attempt to misrepresent this issue as all about holograms , as all or nothing, shows either a lack of understanding of basic thought processes about how to work through a problem, or else a malicious attempt to try make the issue seem more "way out" than it actually is.

In Bakers general approach, I detect exactly the same tactics that were uised to try to discredit the pentagon analysis in the early days.
The supporter of the govt story, piles on the insults - "gibberish, bizzare,pure nonesense,kooky" along with the obligatory accusation of spookdom, and then reacts with a tone of injured dignity, when a little of it gets dished back, haughtily procaliming that

[[I won't be resorting to insults. ]]

If that's going to be the style from now on, Jeremy - then fine, but don't dish it out if you can't take it.

That's all I'll say about Baker's rude, insulting, hypocritical and defamatory style, becuase the important thing is to remain focused on the issue of the faked video.

Baker declined my invitation to offer to any facts or analysis, but simply resorted to a more verbose version of the same drivel.

He makes no attempt to address the question of live video animation, or acknowledge the source provided. By his silence he implies that he believes that real planes can melt away into nothing, stay silhoutted in full sunlight, fly in the opposite direction to which they banking, grow strange pimples on their underbellies in mid flight,slice through a building without making a hole and without the slightest deformation of their form.
He also apparently believes that they built a plane specially for the operation.

And he accuses the author of being "kooky".

He also seems to believe that simply stating raw increduality over and over again, and repeating generalised slander against the author is a substitute for reasoned arguement.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

First of all, I'd like to say how thrilled I am that Plague Puppy, Gerard, and the mysterious Vachequirit are here on Baltimore Indymedia. We've never had more distinguished company in my view.

Nothing J. Baker says bothers me. He doesn't believe in my conclusions and won't explain why. That's fine with me. He's still a 911 skeptic which is much better than being a proponent of the insane Official Story.

I understand the confusion that surrounds Webfairy's site. (www.TheWebfairy.com ). I can probably explain anything that she has written that isn't clear. I can be reached publicly via this board or privately, through my email address.

Peace.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

First, to Mr. Loughrey, I'd like to apologize for my choice of words in describing your work. It's true, when reading an article that begins with the premise "No planes hit the WTC" I'm admittedly moved to respond with fairly strong terminology (in this case too strong). Having said that, I just re-read your article and still, your conclusions simply elude me completely, as do the premises set forth by the Webfairy which, after much scrutiny, I simply find indecipherable (Gerard, I'd like to refute them point for point but I can't make sense of them in the first place!). I'm doubly confused with all this considering the fact that the original mainstream media footage of the event is wholly incriminating as it is and supports far better other more plausible fraudulent scenarios (in my opinion). I'm also very suspicious of the Webfairy for several other reasons which I'd rather not get into now. After all, this is Mr. Loughrey's thread.
Scott, considering the civil tone in your thread entry above you strike me as a level headed kind of guy (who, incidently, seems far less rankled by my criticism than Gerard does! And its Mr. Loughrey's theorums I'm addressing!) I look forward to corresponding with you at any time and if you can persuade me of your position I promise that I'll try to remain open minded.
I'm committed to exposing 9/11 fraud and feel strongly that we should always present our message in a way that can be as persuasive on the most mainstream news show as it is on the most radical web-site. It's true, I'm not on board with this new take on the attacks, and I've embraced some pretty radical ideas concerning 9/11 in my time.
Gerard, I think that the "pimple" on the underside of Fl. 175 has always been an extremely strange point of interest, as is the clearly seen rockets shot from Fl. 11 a nano-second before impact (an outrageous occurence which has been cut out of most recent mainstream newscasts. They cut the video just before the plane hits). But the video of the planes hitting the towers is something I believe to be very real and I can see no credible evidence to deny that this occurred.
 

Thats better, JB

It does seem to be a strange attitude to have decided that one would like to refute something,point for point while at the same time admitting that one doesn't actually know what one is trying to refute. This does not indicate an open mind.

JB
[[(Gerard, I'd like to refute them point for point but I can't make sense of them in the first place!). ]]


Nevertheless, I am pleased to see that Jeremy has responded to my invitation to take a more civil tone with Scott, to desist from misrepresenting his article, and retract his accusation of spookdom. Perhaps his professed willingness to examine the issue in private with Scott is an indication that he is willing to listen now, notwithstanding his enigmatic quote above.
Hopefully, Jeremy will learn from this the dangers of getting the hackles up simply from reading the title and the conclusion, before one has actually examined the arguments for it.

This is a positive development.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

"Scott, considering the civil tone in your thread entry above you strike me as a level headed kind of guy (who, incidently, seems far less rankled by my criticism than Gerard does!"

Gerard is one of the coolest chaps I know on the Net. If he's getting rankled there is probably a good reason for it.

J. Baker, what do you disagree with that I've put forward? What about Webfairy's site do you not understand or dispute?
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

'Nevertheless, I am pleased to see that Jeremy has responded to my invitation to take a more civil tone with Scott, to desist from misrepresenting his article, and retract his accusation of spookdom.' Gerard


Hey Gerard, you know you're right, I have toned down my rhetoric towards Scott, but I gaurantee, it had nothing to do with a damn word you had to say (and I assure you, I haven't retracted a single thing). Your accusing me of ranting and hurling invective will intrigue anyone new to this thread when they read your entries above. And I'm already regretting having ever shown you the slightest iota of respect in the past.

Scott Loughrey's writing, like yours, is scrambled, vague and poorly composed. It takes a subject that is difficult to even entertain and, by the end of it, you're more skeptical than you were in the beginning. But the both of you look like scholars compared to the Webfairy.

Scott, I'm sorry but I've checked the links(most of which I've seen a million times before) and I find your conclusions just tedious and not the least bit persuasive. Rather than drawing you in they make you want to pull your hair out. I want to oblige you by giving you the examples you requested but when I start to write about the subject I'm embarrassed to even be associated with it. NO PLANES HIT THE WTC?? The zoom-out theory? No debris bouncing off the facade? None of these issues are the least bit compelling to me but I'm sure the web is full of people who will make you feel like you're really on to something.

Gerard is one of the coolest chaps on the net, huh? Are we talking about the same guy who wrote the sprawling diatribe above? If your judge of 9/11 issues is as good as your judge of people maybe you should try bowling instead of writing.

I'm through with this ridiculous thread and I'm through with the both of you.
 

Nice exit, JB.

JB wrote 4 posts without providing a single counter argument.Lots of insults, accusations of spookdom, and reiterations of his conclusions - but no facts, analysis or reasoning.

At the risk of being tedious, I will again point out that simply stating an opinion over and over again, does not qualify as "argument", much less as research. If we all showed the same standards as JB, IMC would be reduced to long pages of "Yes it is", "No its not", "Yes it is", "No its not"...

It also seems that JB was unable to handle having a bit of his own agro dished back to him, which means it was foolish for him to start with the headkicking, if he couldn't also take it.

But I think what really scared him, was that Scott very nicely invited him to discuss any concerns he had with the article.

The terror of being nailed down to having to produce a real argument, in place of his tedious repetitions of meaningless usupported conclusions, caused him to hightail it to the hills, which is what supporters of the govt story about sept 11 usually do, once its time to get down to facts and rational analysis.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

"I'm through with this ridiculous thread and I'm through with the both of you."

Boy do I feel dumb. I actually thought J. Baker was going to turn out to be someone worthwhile to speak to.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

Here's a good video clip from KTLA that shows the mysterious black plane that looks like it's back lit though the building is in full sun. I don't have a clue what's going on here, but at the very least it's a strangely farked video.

www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/2ndplanevarious_a.avi
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

I really don't like it when people tell baldfaced lies about me.
Baker says "
And it's ironic that I should be labeled someone who just makes statements without supporting them.
It was from my correspondence with the Webfairy that I first began to have suspicions. It was she
who dimissed my inquiries with no explanation."

This is BALDFACE LIE.
I received one of the most obviously phoney pictures I ever saw.
The original is posted at
thewebfairy.com/911/phony/767.jpg
Baker's enlargement:
thewebfairy.com/911/phony/boeing_767.jpg

I responded:
> This is so farked and phoneybaloney'ed I'm suprised anybody gives it any
> thought
> beyond "gee, more fakery."
>
> I'm guessing this is because people aren't familiar enough with what
> enlargements look like, and what phoneybaloney filters applied to hide farking
> looks like.
>
> This has had some photoshop "artistic" filter applied to spoil the resolution.
> Usually this is done after something has been added in, to hide the
> demarkations.
> There is no sort of compression scheme that would create this shower-door
> distortion pattern.
>
> This is a leg-pull, not a "finding,"

Baker says:
"Phoney-baloney" she called the photo I sent her.
No reason why, just total dismissal. My inquiries are typically reasonably well researched, certainly
nothing to just brush aside. This and other behaviour on her part raise serious red flags for me, and I
don't cast aspersions lightly. "

I'd say the photoshopped shower-curtain effect is plenty reason to dismiss this picture as a fake.

Others noticed the picture was NOT a 767, and that the skies over New York were clear on 911.

I must have pulled the curtain on some sort of scam.
That's the only reason I can think of for his peculiar vendetta.
 

The photo

I also have seen the photo in question.The version I have seen looks rather like a melted plastic model of a plane (the tail is almost completely seperated from the body which has a huge bulge near the seperation point) lying on piece of ribbed pattern cloth ( which apparently is supposed to be the WTC). The resolution is so bad that the wingtips and tail fin tips take on the same wiggly pattern of the background as they melt into it, with no discernable line between the "plane" and the "building". What is supposed to be the WTC is absolutely uniform in its texture, there is absolutely no definition to distinguish windows from solid building. You wouldn't even know that it was supposed to be a building unless someone told you.
Unless there is a better resolution of this photo around which I haven't seen, then Baker has some serious explaining to do.
At the very least, any critical viewer of the version I've seen, would conclude that if thats the best resolution available, then if the photo is not a deliberate fake, then the best one can say is that the resolution of whatever it represents is so bad that it could have been taken almost anywhere of just about anything, and can't be used as evidence for anything.
Anyone seriously hawking it as "evidence" for what happened at the WTC is suspect to allegations of worse than just careless thinking.
One has to question why, if a real plane is supposed to have hit the tower,and to have been captured on several videos, the propnents of such a theory are so desperate that they have to resort to this kind of junk to prop up their evidence cache.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

"Here's a good video clip from KTLA that shows the mysterious black plane..."

Plague Puppy, it sounds like a great shot. However, I am unable to open the video portion for some reason.
 

Reply to Scott44 about video

The problem is that it's encoded with Divx codec(www.divx.com/). It's a free download:
download.divx.com/divx/DivX511Bundle.exe
It's a widely used codec for movie rips, but I understand it only works on Wintel boxes. Codec purists don't like it but it gives good picture quality for the file size.

In any case I'll re-encode it back to mpeg and post a link for those who can't view Divx.
 

mpeg version of South Tower crash

 

Black plane not affected by the Sun

Pup, once I installed the DivX stuff the video works fine. Yes, the plane is in shadow on a clear day when there is nothing to block the Sun's light. (The smoke overhead should not affect the plane when it is hundreds of feet from the South Tower.)

In addition, "UA 175" actually gets lighter as it approaches the South Tower. So, if the smoke is a factor it should be more of a factor the closer it is to the South Tower.

Thanks for your input.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

Don't remember seeing the video that you are talking about. However I have witnessed two other fatal aircraft crashes and they do make a loud thud. Not as loud as you might have exspected.

You should consider the distance from the crash, the background noise, the voice over sound track and noise being made by the witnesses. The videos all seem to have been filmed more than a mile away. Sound travels about 1000 feet per second ao it would take almost 5 seconds to reach the camera.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

i was on john and broadway when tower 2 got hit. thats a mini block away. i can tell you the blast i heard was quite evident.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

i was on john and broadway when tower 2 got hit. thats a mini block away. i can tell you the blast i heard was quite evident.
 

Re: Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

I support oren's comment in that they do make a noisse when the plane hit the tower i was there
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

i was on john and broadway when tower 2 got hit. thats a mini block away. i can tell you the blast i heard was quite evident.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

i was on john and broadway when tower 2 got hit. thats a mini block away. i can tell you the blast i heard was quite evident.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

i was on john and broadway when tower 2 got hit. thats a mini block away. i can tell you the blast i heard was quite evident.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

i was on john and broadway when tower 2 got hit. thats a mini block away. i can tell you the blast i heard was quite evident.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

i was on john and broadway when tower 2 got hit. thats a mini block away. i can tell you the blast i heard was quite evident.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

i was on john and broadway when tower 2 got hit. thats a mini block away. i can tell you the blast i heard was quite evident.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

"but goin back to the WTC, a plain hitting that building WOULD 'dissapear' inside it..."

hahahahahahahahaha

just like a small car will disappear into an SUV when it collides into it, with no pieces breaking off.
 

Reality

For those of you ignorant folks who were not there, I give you this.
As someone who not only had first hand account of what happened but also the countless views of tens of thousands.
The first plane that hit, I must admit I did not see. The second plane was viewed not only by me but by many co-workers and fellow New Yorkers. It's nice if you live in the midwest somewhere and talk about high tech video footage and other nonsense, but I can tell you that a plane definitely crashed into the towers. Go on all you want about conspiracy theories.
 

Re: Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

Also, do you realize that the towers fell an hour AFTER the first plane hit? Every major news organization and freelance photographer were there taking video and pictures. That's why you have so many angles of video. There are 15 million people in New York City, you don't think you can get 20 or 30 great camera angles? If you weren't there on 9/11/01, you should have no input into this discussion!!
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

whoever this is, you are having problems. Just because there is no sound does not mean that a plane didn't hit the building. Were you there when it happened. Don't get deceived by rumors 911 is all true planes did hit buildings and the PENTAGON and the ground.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

whoever this is, you are having problems. Just because there is no sound does not mean that a plane didn't hit the building. Were you there when it happened. Don't get deceived by rumors 911 is all true planes did hit buildings and the PENTAGON and the ground.
 

Re: TV Networks Aired Fake 911 Video

you really must be sad to go to all this trouble to prove something that was true. if 9/11 fake that means that noone would have died and the towers would still stand. plus why would so many people die and jump out of windows. to try and prove 9/11 wrong is wrong
 

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